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Old 15 May 2022, 16:33 (Ref:4110095)   #1
john ruston
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Monaco Historic's

How bad can commentators be .
The lack of knowledge knew no bounds
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Old 15 May 2022, 18:42 (Ref:4110114)   #2
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Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
How bad can commentators be .
The lack of knowledge knew no bounds
Streaming or at the track ?
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Old 15 May 2022, 20:53 (Ref:4110123)   #3
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Streaming or at the track ?
Streaming via ACM or Goodwood
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Old 16 May 2022, 05:39 (Ref:4110144)   #4
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Ah, we had Ian Titchmarsh at the track with French and Italian language co-comms.
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Old 16 May 2022, 06:06 (Ref:4110146)   #5
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We had Brundle junior , Needle and some other bloke.
Didn’t know BRM won Monaco in seventies.
Thought it was a Matra.
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Old 16 May 2022, 06:43 (Ref:4110148)   #6
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Didn’t know BRM won Monaco in seventies.
Thought it was a Matra.
Sacre bleu John.... as a BRM fan back in the day I must correct you
1972 Jean-Pierre Beltoise won in the wet driving a Marlboro BRM P160B, from 4th on the grid, beating Ickx Ferrari by 40 seconds and Fittipaldi's Lotus by a lap. BRM's final GP win.

Im not sure that Matra (car or engine) ever won at Monaco.

A youtube brief highlights clip of the 1972 Monaco GP

French commentary and B/W....
https://youtu.be/upIh2z_OvL8


Edit: found one in English, again B/W
https://youtu.be/nPT9-v8cGeQ

Last edited by E.B; 16 May 2022 at 06:57.
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Old 16 May 2022, 06:57 (Ref:4110149)   #7
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How bad can commentators be .
And they found a lot, all talking at the same time leading to think the the commentators' room is huge. Better on Sky channel, only the engines' sounds.
This apart, many disputed races. What a chance Alesi was not present, Werner could win safely…
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Old 16 May 2022, 07:00 (Ref:4110150)   #8
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And they found a lot, all talking at the same time leading to think the the commentators' room is huge. Better on Sky channel, only the engines' sounds.
This apart, many disputed races. What a chance Alesi was not present, Werner could win safely…
And this year it was Charles Leclerc's turn to bend Lauda's Ferrari.

https://youtu.be/MN-3hXcWg1E
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Old 16 May 2022, 07:47 (Ref:4110160)   #9
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On the ground, a few thoughts. Hadn't been since 2012/2014 and first reaction was huge jump in ticket price (€45 for weekend up to €120 on advance booking). Some grandstands full (Casino both days, but some very empty).
Good entry across the board, although it seemed that stretching the 3L F1 cars over four races led to some thinner grids and even less finishers by the time attrition and lack of skill were taken into account.
Previous years sat at Piscine and Tabac. This year was Casino for Saturday and Anthony Nogues for Sunday. Liked Casino - big screen and decent PA (are you listening several UK circuits ? - yes, I do appreciate the strictures placed on some by local restrictions) provided a decent day's entertainment. Lunch at a local Italian also thoroughly enjoyed !
Sunday was at Anthony Nogues - much more restricted view - could not see back to Rascasse due to large olive tree, but action through the corner entertaining - especially the sportscars. For proximity to the sight and sound - and appreciating how narrow the circuit is - it was a good spot.
Very early start each day meant that we missed the early sixties GP (08.15 and 08.00 respectively). Longish gaps between races suggested a more sensible start to the day and slightly shorter gaps could have been achieved.
Will we rush back ? Probably not, whilst there are still debut trips to Pau, Dijon and a few other places to complete, but you can do worse than a long weekend on the Riviera ! Will add link to photos on Flickr shortly.
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Old 16 May 2022, 08:01 (Ref:4110162)   #10
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We had Brundle junior , Needle and some other bloke.
Didn’t know BRM won Monaco in seventies.
Thought it was a Matra.
It was the commentators that didn’t know!
I knew as I went on a day trip to race with my father in law got absolutely soaked , he lost his ticket so we had to buy a replacement which left us with little money and race lasted a very long time
My badge is still in my o&s stuff in the office
250 FF at final hairpin before all this Rasgas stuff.
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Old 16 May 2022, 15:01 (Ref:4110235)   #11
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Im not sure that Matra (car or engine) ever won at Monaco.
You are correct Chris, other winners in the 70's were Lotus Tyrrell, Ferrari & Wolf.
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Old 16 May 2022, 16:39 (Ref:4110244)   #12
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Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
It was the commentators that didn’t know!
I knew as I went on a day trip to race with my father in law got absolutely soaked , he lost his ticket so we had to buy a replacement which left us with little money and race lasted a very long time
My badge is still in my o&s stuff in the office
250 FF at final hairpin before all this Rasgas stuff.
Sorry John, I got the wrong end of the stick.

Im a bit jealous. I never got to see my beloved BRM win a GP
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Old 16 May 2022, 17:11 (Ref:4110246)   #13
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How bad can commentators be .
About as bad as someone who puts a possessive apostrophe in a thread title.












































*** - sorry, had to say it. It was bugging me every time I saw it in the updated threads list - ***
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Old 16 May 2022, 17:12 (Ref:4110247)   #14
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How bad can commentators be .

The lack of knowledge knew no bounds
It's funny how perspective alters. Talking about Monaco Historique with MiniMM (25 y.o.) before I read this:

MiniMM "And Alex Brundle is so good, takes after his dad. Knows so much. I really enjoyed it."

Few minutes later me: "Guys on Tenths don't rate him, mixed up his Matras and his BRMs"

MiniMM (sarcastically) "Oh no, how terrible,"

As I said, perspective.

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Old 17 May 2022, 11:21 (Ref:4110348)   #15
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Gallery now on Flickr. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzPTRv
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Old 17 May 2022, 17:55 (Ref:4110404)   #16
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Fantastic job, thanks for sharing David.
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Old 18 May 2022, 00:09 (Ref:4110431)   #17
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Gallery now on Flickr. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzPTRv
Beautiful cars and great pics David. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 18 May 2022, 20:56 (Ref:4110513)   #18
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Gallery now on Flickr. https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjzPTRv
Some superb shots here, gorgeous machinery and you certainly get around!
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Old 19 May 2022, 13:56 (Ref:4110571)   #19
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DAYTONASME should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I know there are some very experienced/successful historic racers who contribute here.

After the driving standards farce last weekend, does more need to be done to ensure drivers of "like" capability "race" together?

As a lifelong fan, I appreciate this is nothing new.....most especially at Goodwood, Le Mans, Monaco...possibly Monterey and Philip Island too.

There were owners/racers on circuit last weekend who were of equal danger to themselves, and others....

Does anybody have any ideas as to what can be done to address this?
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Old 20 May 2022, 13:42 (Ref:4110686)   #20
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Derwent is heading for a stewards' enquiry!
There will be people who have raced all their lives but there will be other, "mature" drivers who have got the money to buy the car, go to ARDS, get a licence and perhaps do their six events in a saloon or Formula Ford and are then able to go out with a50 year old single seater on narrow tyres that needs a different skill set.
When you look at the lap times there were people who were 18 seconds a lap slower than the leader in cars that could be driven nearly as quickly. On the other hand there were some slower cars being driven very quickly by experienced drivers. There was a Lotus 18 that was beating newer and more powerful cars.
How you deal with this I do not know but you see it in all areas of historic racing. If someone can afford a car, should you stop him racing it because he is slow or lacks race craft.
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Old 20 May 2022, 17:48 (Ref:4110719)   #21
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There will be people who have raced all their lives but there will be other, "mature" drivers who have got the money to buy the car, go to ARDS, get a licence and perhaps do their six events in a saloon or Formula Ford and are then able to go out with a50 year old single seater on narrow tyres that needs a different skill set.

When you look at the lap times there were people who were 18 seconds a lap slower than the leader in cars that could be driven nearly as quickly. On the other hand there were some slower cars being driven very quickly by experienced drivers. There was a Lotus 18 that was beating newer and more powerful cars.

How you deal with this I do not know but you see it in all areas of historic racing. If someone can afford a car, should you stop him racing it because he is slow or lacks race craft.
All very good points which I have thought myself many times.

Maybe there should be an Advanced ARDS test for people wanting to drive vehicles in advance of X bhp/tonne? Being able to lap within say 110% of a good mid grid time, and also requiring greater number of races as experience. Maybe that lap time should be revisited frequently to prove that age is not becoming a handicap.

An International Historic licence is laughingly easy to "qualify" for.


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Old 20 May 2022, 18:58 (Ref:4110723)   #22
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All very good points which I have thought myself many times.

Maybe there should be an Advanced ARDS test for people wanting to drive vehicles in advance of X bhp/tonne? Being able to lap within say 110% of a good mid grid time, and also requiring greater number of races as experience. Maybe that lap time should be revisited frequently to prove that age is not becoming a handicap.

An International Historic licence is laughingly easy to "qualify" for.


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We discussed this a couple or more years ago here on Tenths, but there is a Catch 22 problem here. A lot of these cars are owned by some, one must assume, fairly wealthy people and some of those owners and families want to drive them, and if they are stopped from doing so, then it is very possible that those cars would never see a race track. And we would be worse off if they just remained in hidden warehouses and never again saw the light of day.

Although he has relented somewhat in the recent past, one of the largest collections of past race cars belong to Bernie Ecclestone, and he wouldn't permit them to be raced in historic meetings. Luckily, that has changed, and some of them are piloted by really experienced and fast drivers.

However, one family who also own an eclectic mix of F1 cars all want to drive them at these meetings, and I fear that if one or more of the family were denied the opportunity, then they might well just take their cars and hide them. And then we would the poorer for it.
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Old 20 May 2022, 20:11 (Ref:4110731)   #23
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dwh43scale should be qualifying in the top 5 on the griddwh43scale should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
There were a number of occasions where slower drivers did not apparently seem aware of the faster cars as they came up to pass them despite vigorous blue flags. That said, the track is very narrow in parts even for older cars and it's not always easy for a back marker to jump out of the way.
However, it would be good to see the full grid being driven by skilful fast drivers - but that's perhaps more likely at Mallory than Monaco :-)
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Old 20 May 2022, 20:12 (Ref:4110733)   #24
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Thanks for the words of appreciation for the photos; hopefully there will be a few from the Spa Spring Classic early next week.
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Old 20 May 2022, 21:59 (Ref:4110737)   #25
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it's not always easy for a back marker to jump out of the way.
This is one of the problems caused by rules which are not emphasized enough at briefings. It's not the slower driver's job to get out of the way, it's for the overtaking (probably more experienced) driver to find a way round. Problems arise when a car moves unpredictably - they should hold their line then everyone would know what to expect. I'm not exactly guilt-free in this department but have also been on the receiving end when a hard charger assumes you will "get out of the way" and is caught out when you go for the apex - as you should, regardless of how many blue flags are being waved at you.
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