See Red, VSCC, Donington 5/6-9-09

[John Turner]

I wondered why your cars didn't appear in the last race, John. What a shame, and I agree, absolute crap. It seems that our sport is being infiltrated by scum, because they clearly aren't enthusiasts.

For me, as a meeting, it was a vast improvement over my last See Red Saturday. Really excellent turn out of cars, but I do question the wisdom of a 6 race programme, all starting after lunch, when 4 of them are hour long races. A whole load of time had been lost in the morning with various shunts and stoppages, so that we were the best part of an hour behind when the racing eventually started and it was about 8 pm when the last race finished, and that was after a pretty delay free afternoon!

I'll do my pictorial review (saturday only) but it may be a while as I have a fair bit of catching up to do.

[Peter Horsman]

My wallet nicked. Cash in various currencies but at least cr/dr card not used. Hey ho.

[eclectic]

It was more than four or five wallets...........

This follows on from the theft of trailers from VSCC events earlier in the year.

Racers are obviously seen as rick pickings by scumbags.

I have kept my wallet and car keys in my racing suit pocket for years now, and had a locking catch on the trailer plus a wheel clamp.

A far cry from when I started competing in 1982.

[eclectic]

Originally Posted by John Turner

it was about 8 pm when the last race finished, and that was after a pretty delay free afternoon!

So, how the hell do drivers expect marshals to volunteer? They are asked to turn up for 8am..... 12 hours on your feet, out, unsheltered in all weathers, a half hour break by the time they get back to the paddock. No wonder they were so few on the ground that there was only one flag marshal at each post.

At least the VSCC gives them £6 lunch money, but how many drivers or their crew EVER even THINK about volunteering to marshal?

SeeRed was very close to having insufficient marshals for it to start on Saturday morning.

Think about it................

[terence]

Such a sad situation! Isn't it about time Donington got on top of this,it is surely down to the owner's of the venue to ensure there is enough security in the paddock.Circuit hire being as high as it is,there should be enough left in the kitty to sort this appalling state of affairs!!

Regarding the lateness,that's down to Race Control to try and make up some time during the day,isn't it?

[Greem]

Originally Posted by eclectic

So, how the hell do drivers expect marshals to volunteer?

I was marshalling for the first time on Saturday having made the break from one side of the fence to the other. It was indeed an extremely long day, but by the time I got back to the paddock (thanks for the taxi rides folks!) we only had 15 minutes before having to get back on post!

how many drivers or their crew EVER even THINK about volunteering to marshal?

On both days there was a VSCC member on post with us - on Saturday just as a flaggie, but on Sunday the chap was also a BMMC track marshal so we took it in turns flagging. Sunday, by the way, was much more sedate from a marshalling point of view!

I don't think either of the people I met on post were VSCC drivers, but at least they were from the club - it looked like the club provided quite a lot of marshals, actually, particularly yesterday.

As it happens I thought the weekend was fantastic - the cars, the racing, and the general atmosphere. It was helped by the fact that on the Sunday there were a lot of you (VSCC drivers) seeming to be very apologetic and thankful to the various marshals for staying so late on the Saturday. You're a polite lot, I'll say that much

[grantp]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Such a sad situation! Isn't it about time Donington got on top of this,it is surely down to the owner's of the venue to ensure there is enough security in the paddock.Circuit hire being as high as it is,there should be enough left in the kitty to sort this appalling state of affairs!!

Regarding the lateness,that's down to Race Control to try and make up some time during the day,isn't it?

The problem, surely, is having to let people into the circuit and running an open paddock. Unless of course the problem is someone related to the event. A nasty thought but not an unknown situation.

On the other hand there are all sorts of situations in which I would never leave critical stuff, like a wallet that is small enough to keep about my person, unprotected unless I had no other options.

Lock them away somewhere, carry them with you or ensure there is always a responsible team member on duty looking after the stuff. It's the same for any event really, even a shopping trip.

If the perpetrators tried to withdraw cash so quickly it sounds like they were working in a team, inside and outside. Also that they had PIN codes? Or thought they did. Do people still keep PIN codes in their wallets?

Other than interrogate everyone at the gates (that should go down well) or provide a security presence for each and every team (with advice about how to make things as secure as possible in the local area of the team's equipment) I really don't see what the circuit can do, bearing in mind that access to Donington is pretty well controlled with just a single gate open mostly in recent times.

It's not just a Donington problem though, is it? People have clearly worked out that race meetings offer potential with cash around and unattended in enough cases to make the trip worthwhile for those of a light fingered disposition. Music festivals and similar events also offer pickings that are, seemingly, easy to exploit. Nothing much new in that.

[Chris Roden]

Originally Posted by eclectic

but how many drivers or their crew EVER even THINK about volunteering to marshal?

SeeRed was very close to having insufficient marshals for it to start on Saturday morning.

Think about it................

Mike
I think there are two groups of people, "pure racers", who belong to the VSCC simply so they can race, and "club members" who belong to become involved in all forms of vintage motorsport. Our car is broken so we were flagging at Donington on Sunday; when we were competing in speed events and race meetings regularly we would often marshal on trials and rallies. I know that you, along with a number of other stalwarts, do the same.
I don't think you will ever convert the pure racers except where a meeting is in danger of being cancelled due to a lack of marshals. I was speaking to a regular pure racer on Saturday evening and he said exactly that.

[eclectic]

Originally Posted by Chris Roden

Mike
I think there are two groups of people, "pure racers", who belong to the VSCC simply so they can race, and "club members" who belong to become involved in all forms of vintage motorsport.
I don't think you will ever convert the pure racers except where a meeting is in danger of being cancelled due to a lack of marshals. I was speaking to a regular pure racer on Saturday evening and he said exactly that.

Nothing 'pure' about them, just selfish.

SeeRed came within a whisker of being cancelled at the last moment due to lack of flag marshals, not only would the 'pure racers' have lost their day's fun, the VSCC would have lost a lot of money.

So called 'pure racers', VSCC or otherwise, need to rethink their ideas, many marshals are now pensioners and there doesn't seem to be quite so many youngsters coming up the ladder.

Possibly because they have more disposable income and happily pay to spectate, but more likely it is the fact that they are supposed to have 'tango suits' and do lots of training days, that seems to have raised a new barrier.

Chris, I know you always muck in and marshal if necessary, last year I raced in the Edwardian Race, but start line marshaled on the second day, so why won't 'pure racers' give a hand, who knows, they might even be surprised to find that they enjoy themselves?

[terence]

Simply down to the uncertain state Donington is in at the moment,a question that must enter a long travelling Marshals mind must be'What if it get's cancelled'.Be interesting to see if the VSCC get the same line of comments as did Master's.

[Chris Roden]

I'm posting this on behalf of Mike Stripe, the VSCC club Secretary, I'm sure all involved in the meeting would echo his comments:

Ray's appeal obviously worked because both days went ahead as planned but I suspect we could have done with a few more on Saturday.

Can I please offer a huge vote of thanks to everyone who marshalled at Donington thus enabling the VSCC to bring the 'old' circuit to the end of its racing life.

I'm especially grateful to everyone who ended up on post until very nearly 8.00pm on Saturday evening. This was never the plan but we never fully recovered from the two red flags in the morning. It was clearly too long a day and we should not expect it, so please accept my apologies on behalf of a very grateful Club.

A number of marshals did make it along to the after event drinks on Saturday and seemed to enjoy it but I suspect that many were too tired to contemplate it....

If any of you are members of other marshals' forums I'd be grateful if you would cross-post my thanks there as well.

-----------------------------
Mike Stripe
Secretary

[p261brm]

Lovely pair of Kiefts. Should have taken a pic of the distinctive wheel design-Mike Bell

Grey matter stirring a bit late, is this the single seater fitted with that infamous never to be ready Climax 2-5litre V8? or am I barking?

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Grey matter stirring a bit late, is this the single seater fitted with that infamous never to be ready Climax 2-5litre V8? or am I barking?

From the sound, they were certainly V8s, but never saw one with lid off. This may help the old grey matter- http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac....CyrilKieft.htm

I guess the closed wheel car in the pic could be the De Soto engined sports racer?

[jamesholland]

Originally Posted by p261brm

Grey matter stirring a bit late, is this the single seater fitted with that infamous never to be ready Climax 2-5litre V8? or am I barking?

Yes it is

[John Turner]

A few pics.

[PBE]

Nice pictures John. Do you have any of the Le Mans Rep Nash I was lucky enough to drive in the Woodcote Trophy race? I am driving the same car next weekend in the Madgwick at GW. Competition is pretty stiff but we are doing all we can to the car for at minimimum a podium result.

[John Turner]

Quite possibly I do have, Patrick, but haven't gone through them properly yet.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by John Turner

A few pics.

John, we were that close to saying hello- I can see me on pit wall in bottom right shot!

[John Turner]

Sorry we didn't catch up, Mike.

[John Turner]

29 starters; 19 finishers

A 60 minute race with mandatory stop, the race had a higher than expected attrition rate. The Cooper Monaco of Graeme Dodd was on pole but had, what I understand was a dire start, and in fact only lasted 5 laps. So it was other front row car, the Wood/McCaig Lister Jaguar (18) that took the initial lead albeit briefly. By the bottom of the Craner Curves on the first lap Gary Pearson was challenging for the lead in the Lister Jaguar (28 shared with Andrew Garner) and duly dived up the inside into the Old Hairpin to take the lead - see pic 1. Behind is the Lotus 15 of Ewan McIntyre (15) and the Sadler of Julian Majzub (23). Unfortunately, the Sadler repeated its Silverstone Classic non finish and retired after 5 laps.

Pic 2 is of the Kellison J4 (62) of Albert Otten which was to finish 10th, the non finishing Lola Mk 1 prototype (16) of Phillips and Lister Jaguar (20) of Phil Bennett which after some difficulties
finished last of the classified finishers. Pic 3 shows Jim Woodley in the Lotus 17 (17) that he shared with Iain Rowley to take 12th. Pic 4 is of the Clark Cooper Bobtail (8) which finished 7th whilst pic 5 shows Groom/Quinn Lister Jaguar (24) which retired after 34 laps, and the Couch Lotus Buick reincarnation (36) which also failed to finish. The last pic, shows the Maserati 200S1 (63 - 17th) of Gordon McCulloch about to regain the track whilst the Smith Lister Chevrolet (58 - 11th) and the non finishing Cooper Bobtail of Peter Horsman and Jac Nelleman's passes by. More later.

[John Turner]

Car 40 is a new and welcome one on the scene; David Wenman's Selway Special which finished 16th. Ewan McIntyre had taken 2nd place early on in the Lotus 15 (15) and had become embroiled in a great battle with the leading Lister - see Pic 2. The 28 car was eventually to retire but McIntyre was then caught and passed by his brother, Jamie in another Lister Corvette. Pic 3 shows the D-type (25) of Jonathan Turner, yet another not to complete the race. Pic 4 is the prevously mentioned Lister Jaguar of Bennett gyrating, whilst pic 5 is the 5th placed Keen/McAlpine Kurtiss 500S followed by Cooper Bobtail. Although Jamie McIntyre took the lead from his brother (see last pic), Ewan was not to be denied in the smaller nimbler Lotus and eventually retook the lead to score what I believe was his first victory over his brother.

[John Turner]

25 starters; 21 finishers.

A 6 lap race in which Martin Stretton put the Frazer Nash SS Racer on pole and proceeded to drive comfortably away from the field. I'll go straight into the pics. Pic 1 is of Dougal Cawley in the GN/Ford Special 'Piglet' (111) and Chris Chilcott in a Frazer Nash Fast Tourer (185). They finished 7th and 8th, although by the end of the race this tiny gap had grown to 10 seconds. A gaggle of Nashes, on the first lap, being led here by the Frazer Nash 'The Electron' (145) driven to 15th by James Trigwell. Behind is David Leigh's TT Replica (207 - DNF) and Dennis Johnson in the FN Colmore 2 seater (181 - 19th). Pic 3 is of the oldest car in the race, Andy Cawley's 1925 Super Sports, very much in original road touring form, which finished last of the classified finishers. Pic 4 shows Martin Stretton, on lap 3, his lead clearly diminishing as the car slowed, and he was soon to pit and retire. Behind is Jonathan Cobb in his FN Ford (27) and Brian White in FN/BMW TT replica (34). Pic 5 is of Robert Carr's AC/GN special (14 - 5th) and 56 is Justin Maaers in the GN Parker.

[John Turner]

Once Stretton had retired a great 3 -way battle for the lead brewed up between Cobb (27), White (34) and Maaers (56), and here they are seen lapping some backmarkers going under Starkey's Bridge. Note all the 'furniture' associated with Starkey's with the earthworks as a backdrop. How much of that will appear the same next year, I wonder? 49 is Patrick Blakeney-Edwards in his FN Supersports. He finished 6th. In pic 3 the lead battle rages, with White now ahead, and in fact this is the order in which they finished, less than a second covering all three - splendid stuff. Pic 4 is of Jonathan Rose in the FN Semmence S (175 - 18th) with Hamish Munro in his Supersports (87 - 16th) and Trigwell again. 192 is the FN Interceptor of John Villar who finished 20th. Final pic is of Jo Blakeney-Edwards inspecting under the bonnet having finished 10th and broken down on the slowing down lap.

[Peter Horsman]

John, excellent and appreciated reports and pictures as usual. Thanks. I was piloting my Lotus 17 (not a Bobtail of course!) solo in this race which was just as well because it would have been a great bore to have brought Jac over from Denmark just for him to witness my gearbox breaking. This was the start of a tricky week or two, since we tested the 17 with the gearbox repaired at Oulton a week later only to have the engine give up on us. We then had to work hard to beg and borrow an engine for Goodwood for the following Thursday. My thanks to Oliver Hartmann for his generous engine loan.

I thought that Ewan had a magnificent race - he just would not let the Lister go after it overtook him but hung on gamely until the Lister tired a bit and he needed no secong asking.

[John Turner]

Thanks, Peter; don't know where I got Bobtail from!