The P word strikes again

[Tourer]

To answer your question Forda:

They've definitely needed to change up the way it's dealt with this year but to me they've been sensible in making smaller changes, assessing them and then adjusting further if needed.

Ideal? No, it hasn't been but it has been managed sensibly through the course of the season. It is clear that a much better set of tools for making assessments has been developed out of this year's challenges around adjusting parity between a coupe and a couple of sedans for the first time, rather than all sedans in previous years.

You can throw all the emotive, tantrum-like words around that you like but it has neither been underhand, nor a farce, nor a via the "back door" nor secretive. Sure it's taken 6 months or so to get it all sorted but it does look like that may have now been achieved and we'll get a much better idea of that over the upcoming events.

[Forda]

And throwing around vague, meaningless phrases such as "better set of tools", "making smaller changes", (to) "get a much better idea" unfortunately does very little to prove the reactionary and ad-hoc processes used this year have been either fair, or well executed.

[mite5255]

We could always go back to group c rules, there was never any *****ing, winging and whining back then

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Forda

And throwing around vague, meaningless phrases such as "better set of tools", "making smaller changes", (to) "get a much better idea" unfortunately does very little to prove the reactionary and ad-hoc processes used this year have been either fair, or well executed.

There were never so many parity adjustments when the holden teams were winning everything.

Supercars preach technical parity but employ lobbying parity.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by johnh875

F1 is not a parity series.

Thousands of fans would say otherwise as the technical restrictions try & even out the performance via a big thick rule book and they are currently making it thicker because three teams are so far in front. Sounds like a parity series to me.

[Driver TBA]

Originally Posted by mite5255

We could always go back to group c rules, there was never any *****ing, winging and whining back then

Imagine if there was social media and internet forums back in the Group C & A days.....



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[mite5255]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

Imagine if there was social media and internet forums back in the Group C & A days.....



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

^^^^^^^^ yep, I seem to remember back in the group c days, there were one or more court days trying to sort **** out

[drftin]

everyone whinging about parity should make have a think about the farce that would come out of a free for all set of rules.
aka spend the most and win.
teams struggle to pay the bills now...

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tourer

To answer your question Forda:

They've definitely needed to change up the way it's dealt with this year but to me they've been sensible in making smaller changes, assessing them and then adjusting further if needed.

Why is that sensible?

It far would be far more sensible to say the 2019 cars have been homologated and have aerodynamic technical parity under the requirements of the 2019 VCAT test and they stay as they are.

Everyone can have all year to go off and design a 2020 aero package under a clearer set of aero regulations that are the same for everybody.

In December, have Ford, Holden and Nissan bring along their 2020 specification aero packages with different options of wings, endplates and undertrays, and send them off to the USA to a wind tunnel to be tested thoroughly by an independent third party to ensure 100% technical parity.

Originally Posted by drftin

everyone whinging about parity should make have a think about the farce that would come out of a free for all set of rules.
aka spend the most and win.

What's wrong with that? The richest team or the team that does the best job deserves to win.

Originally Posted by Tourer

Sure it's taken 6 months or so to get it all sorted but it does look like that may have now been achieved and we'll get a much better idea of that over the upcoming events.

Rushing through changes in six months is far too dramatic and heavy handed. The cars at that start of the season were tested under VCAT and aerodynamic parity at the required specifications was acheived. QED. That was done and dusted. It was proved they were equal under the requirements.

Teams are always allowed to rehomologate their aero kit for the next season, that is the provision for changes. NOT unverified changes when aerodynamic parity was already confirmed before season's start at a runway.

Folks would have been best advised to go and design whatever aero kit they want under clear 2020 aero rules, have them independently tested in a wind tunnel and go racing with that kit in 2020. The existing homologated and parity verified kits would be used for the 2019 season.

[leothedrummer]

Originally Posted by drftin

everyone whinging about parity should make have a think about the farce that would come out of a free for all set of rules.
aka spend the most and win.
teams struggle to pay the bills now...

Who's asking for that?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Mark Dutton

All the talk all year, everyone saying 'geez you can't get your head around a single spring', I think that puts a stop to that because we still don't have as much downforce [as the Mustang], and look at the results of the weekend.

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...st-t8/4542166/

What a load of nonsense from Mr Dutton. They were run down a runway and the downforce was measured and found to be the same. That was before downforce was taken away from the Mustang, and 40kg more was put on the Commodore.

Dutton appears to be an advocate of alternative facts!

In all likelihood the Commodore has an unfair advantage now.

[drftin]

Originally Posted by leothedrummer

Who's asking for that?

well if you don't have parity what other alternative is there?

[Forda]

Originally Posted by mite5255

We could always go back to group c rules, there was never any *****ing, winging and whining back then

Interestingly though, the dying days of both Group C and Group A were marred with "parity" adjustments (CAMS "Freedoms") and associated team/manufacturer lobbying.

Perhaps the current parity mess occurring in Supercars is similarly indicative of its stage in its lifecycle.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

https://au.motorsport.com/v8supercar...st-t8/4542166/

What a load of nonsense from Mr Dutton. They were run down a runway and the downforce was measured and found to be the same. That was before downforce was taken away from the Mustang, and 40kg more was put on the Commodore.

Dutton appears to be an advocate of alternative facts!

In all likelihood the Commodore has an unfair advantage now.

And that appears to be exactly what was intended to be done, right from the onset.

Should help sell a few more Opels; or maybe not.

[leothedrummer]

Originally Posted by drftin

well if you don't have parity what other alternative is there?

Is what we have now parity, or is darts being thrown at a board whilst blindfolded?

[Sandgroper]

to be honest the same 6 mustangs still at the front of the pack but atleast it wasnt a blow away by Scotty Mac this weekend. So maybe its becomming a little closer....the parity

Mind you, from memory, many many years of Wincup destroying the competition in the same sense as SM, was there as much Partiy suggestions in those days. I cant remember

[Mixer]

Whincup never destroyed anybody the way Scotty Mac is. Plenty of battles with SVG, Scotty, Will, and many others over the journey. Statistical domination but not utter domination like Scott has been showing this year.

[Forda]

There's plenty of reasons why Whincup hasn't been able to run with Scotty this year, and they're nothing to with parity.

They are more to do with whatever internal changes have occurred within 888, which have resulted in them not allowing their engines to be thrashed,
having wheels literally falling off, and other uncharacteristic stuff.

Add to the equation Scotty is on fire with his current form, and Whincup is moving on in age, and is no longer at his peak.

[Jerico]

Originally Posted by Forda

There's plenty of reasons why Whincup hasn't been able to run with Scotty this year, and they're nothing to with parity.

They are more to do with whatever internal changes have occurred within 888, which have resulted in them not allowing their engines to be thrashed,
having wheels literally falling off, and other uncharacteristic stuff.

Add to the equation Scotty is on fire with his current form, and Whincup is moving on in age, and is no longer at his peak.

And all that happened in 2019, the same year the mustang came out. Imagine that what a coincidence. fighting for championships one year old and washed up the next.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Jerico

And all that happened in 2019, the same year the mustang came out. Imagine that what a coincidence. fighting for championships one year old and washed up the next.

Yes champ; the Mustang caused the wheels to fall off the Opel, initiated the reversion back to single spring coilovers, directly caused the extreme penny pinching going on over at 888, and forced JW to pass the safety car last weekend.

[Sandgroper]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Whincup never destroyed anybody the way Scotty Mac is. Plenty of battles with SVG, Scotty, Will, and many others over the journey. Statistical domination but not utter domination like Scott has been showing this year.

That was a generalised comment about Holden dominance that was had for a long number of years in comparison to the ford dominance now. The reference re Jamie was just the era of Holden to Scotty re Ford.

Might I add, I dont think many will reach Whincups Statistical domination any time soon. His records are exceptional. Scotty may have if he hung around in Oz but as I have been crowing, he will be in the USA more sooner than later.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Casper

Thousands of fans would say otherwise as the technical restrictions try & even out the performance via a big thick rule book and they are currently making it thicker because three teams are so far in front. Sounds like a parity series to me.

They don't test completed cars and make adjustments to try and make them equal. Trying to frame the regs to stop teams running away with things is just trying to minimise the damage/domination.

Hopefully we will soon see a new era for Supercars where the parity testing is more sophisticated. Even the series having their own aerodynamicist to assess the base road cars so aero devices can be added to equalise downforce, balance and drag without chopping up the bodies.

[Forda]

And a new re-homologation process set for 2020:

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/18...ation-process/

[champcarman]

Originally Posted by Forda

And a new re-homologation process set for 2020:

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/18...ation-process/

Yep, just when they seem to have it (parity) fairly close they give themselves an opportunity to stuff it up again.

[Mixer]

So if anybody actually read the article the content is pretty good:

“We’ve been developing an active ride system, so we could put the car in as many different ride height configurations as we want and we’ll paritise the cars across the full spectrum of ride heights, which is which is different to how we’ve done it in the past.

“I think we have improved the process.

“It’s an actual active damper, it’s controlled by, obviously, the ECU and the MCU. It won’t be something we go and race on, it’s something purely for measuring the downforce on the cars. “

“(It) uses load cells, it can measure the force being generated, and we can change the ride height of the car by 1mm in 150 milliseconds, we can change the front or rear ride height, so we’ll just measure the cars through a far greater range of ride heights.”

[Mixer]

So enough with the muckraking conspiracy bullshit:

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/18...IXkmkp_WHpLC_4

“Due process is being followed, all the Commission members had agreed to that. It was communicated to all the teams that that would be the case, in bullet points that were sent out. So there shouldn’t have been any surprises.

“The Commission is critical to the function of the sport. They’re the technical experts.

“The Board are not technical experts, and they (Commission members) play a very important role in the governance of the sport and supporting the Board.”

There it is in black and white.

"sources" "insiders" "pals" continue to make claims about this being "underhanded" but it is just made up ********. May as well print it in New Idea.