CART strikes b@ck!

[domaza]

IRL is trying to steal CART sponsors and it's time for CART to strike b@ck It's heard that IRL is heavily speaking to B&W to get KOOL into IRL in 2003 when the contract runs out with Barry Green. Well lets see, what happens

[Liz]

Kool will have fun sponsoring Greg Ray on his five laps before he smashes into the wall? Perhaps Ray will be able to afford a whole set of wrenches then.

[paulzinho]

IRL WILL LOSE OUT! A series cannot survive in the long run on just one race.

CART will get multinational sponsors and will simply kick IRLs butt at Indy again.

[Liz]

Yes! That is what I think too! Hurrah for Champ Cars and Brazil!

Has Bruno got a drive yet?

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by paulzinho

IRL WILL LOSE OUT! A series cannot survive in the long run on just one race."

2002 will be the IRL's seventh season. That isn't a long time?

[The Beer Baron]

If CART couldn't kill off the IRL in 1996 then it could never!

CART/IRL don't have any big races outside the Indy 500, it's time for both to their heads out of their asses and do something about it!

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
If CART couldn't kill off the IRL in 1996 then it could never!

CART/IRL don't have any big races outside the Indy 500, it's time for both to their heads out of their asses and do something about it!

"

CART can't kill off the IRL, but they are doing a pretty good job on themselves.

Tony has mentioned some overseas races before, but I think the timing just isn't right. For one, they will be competing with CART, but that may not be a problem in a couple of years. For another, it seems that Mr. George has a very specific and solid growth plan for the IRL, and he is making every effort to lock up the fan base here first.

Realistically, there is much work to be done in the US market before the IRL can branch out. Some of the races had poor attendance, while there were only four or five really solid crowds. But the American public is pretty fickle about these things. If you look at the barnburning races that CART put on at MIS, it is certainly a mystery why the stands are empty. It is a mystery why every IRL race is not packed to capicity after the shows we saw this year. If people won't come back to see that kind of action, what do they want?

The only thing I see missing is more American drivers. How would you Brits feel if there were only three of your compatriots in the BTCC?
How would our German friends feel if none of their countrymen could get a sponsored ride in the DTM? The only difference between Americans and other people is that we are called xenophobic when we cheer for our guys. But, of course, CART fans have called IRL fans so many names that they don't mean anything anymore.


I've given up questioning the King. Everything he does seems to turn to gold, so I am just going to sit back and see what the next plesant surprise is going to be.

[The Beer Baron]

I guess we're ALL xenophobes then, the FACT is that people will only be interested in a sport when local people are competing!

You Americans shouldn't be so hard on yourselves, it's a fact of life!

I'm all for more Americans in IRL/CART , as America is the home of those series and there needs to be strong home support for both series!

[Laagri]

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
I guess we're ALL xenophobes then, the FACT is that people will only be interested in a sport when local people are competing!

I don't think I can agree with that. It is true to some extent certainly, but mainly in 'large' developed countries.

I'm British but I live in Estonia. How many Estonians have we got in top class motor racing? There's one guy in the world rally championship, and that's it. Interest in F1 is sky high here, but I don't see any Estonians competing. Interest is fairly high in CART too, and I don't see any there either. Now, interest would increase if there were some locals, that's for sure, but interest is quite high as it is without locals competing. I would be tempted to say that only people from large populous countries can afford to be xenophobic when it comes to choosing what sports to watch. But, then again, that's not totally true either. Look at the German CART race. They had a huge crowd there, and how many Germans did you see in the field?

To Dr Austin - Regarding the comment made about the BTCC and British drivers, well it wasn't long ago that the main contenders for the title included such favourite 'Brits' as Gabriele Tarquini, Rickard Rydell, Alain Menu, Laurent Aiello, Jo Winkelhock, Paul Radisich, Frank Biela, Gianni Morbidelli, Peter Kox, Tom Kristensen, Roberto Ravaglia... I don't think the public minded much at all. And British F3 has traditionally been full of Japanese and Brazilians (like CART really!!) and a general mishmash of all sorts of other nationalities, yet it is still popular. You (Americans) are not called xenophobic because you cheer for your own guys. We all do that. Of course we do. But the general impression we in the rest of the world sometimes get is that you tend to cheer for your guys to the exclusion of even being interested in what anyone else is up to.

Sorry for the rant, and sorry for going off topic, and I'm honestly not anti-American (I have some great American friends) but this seems to come up time and again and so I thought I'd put in my bit and then sit back and watch in peace and quiet as I get flamed...

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by The Beer Baron

"I guess we're ALL xenophobes then, the FACT is that people will only be interested in a sport when local people are competing!"

Well the math is pretty simple;

NASCAR = no foriegners = wild success

This doesn't mean we don't appreciate the fine foriegn champions who chose to compete in CART. We just want for our guys to get good opportunities in their own country. Former proven champion Jimmy Vasser ran most of the year in plain unsponsored orange. Bryan Herta ran in, what, Endeck power tools colors for part of the year. But who do you think Endeck is if it isn't Jerry forsythe running the team out of his own pocket? Sure Michael Andretti had a big sponsor, but with the Andretti name, he could be Afganastanese and still had backing. And Memo Gidley would have never gotten a shot had the Frenchman at Ganassi not fared so poorly. You will notice despite some solid performances, Memo was not invited back. But Chip didn't waste any time hiring a Swede to (potentially) replace him.


"You Americans shouldn't be so hard on yourselves, it's a fact of life!"

No one will ever see me apologize for being American, but there is sure plenty of critisism for that attitude. It is not a good time for Americans to not pull together and cheer for their own, just like other nation's fans do for their guys all the time. This doesn't mean I want the foriegners excluded, but I don't want them sucking up the good rides and sponsors so former American champions can ride around in plain orange cars. This is an American series, so the balance should reflect that. Right now, there is no balance. Unless, of course, you consider CART to be the Brazillian formula turbo championship.



"I'm all for more Americans in IRL/CART , as America is the home of those series and there needs to be strong home support for both series!"

Thanks. But our economy is not going so well right now and i think the problem can only get worse. Until Americans place the same importance on motorsports as they do stick and ball sports, sponsor money is not going to materailize for our drivers. Were we to be as rabid as Brazillians are about their motorsports heros, Americans would be everywhere and winning almost everything, just like the Brazillians are now.

Part of the problem is that there is no really good feeder series showcaseing young American talent that airs before midnight on ESPN 27 (except Thunder, of course). With the new Infinity series, we can only hope that the IRL gives it's IPS drivers the same exposure and hype as the IRL does for it's big league. No one really cares who a new driver is if we don't know where he came from and maybe seen him race. With the new series, we can follow a guy's career and cheer for someone we know.

Plus, the infinity series will give the IRL yet another bombshell to drop on the crowds on raceday. Spec series racing is always close competition, especially on ovals, so the shows will be great and the crowds will get their money's worth. I have really high hopes for the IPS. More americans, more ovals, more heartstopping action. Just like the IRL.

[The Beer Baron]

For some reason F1 attracts people to it from all around the world.

America is unique in that it has many many entertainment sports on tv, so it is hard to break the US market!

Cycling was a big thing here in ireland when we had 2 great guys in that sport, one went on to win the Tour de France, now cycling genates very little interest amongst the common media!
Compare with Lance Armstrong..

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Laagri

You (Americans) are not called xenophobic because you cheer for your own guys. We all do that. Of course we do. But the general impression we in the rest of the world sometimes get is that you tend to cheer for your guys to the exclusion of even being interested in what anyone else is up to."

What you are saying is quite true about NASCAR, but CART/IRL fans have certainly embraced guys like the incomparable Zanardi. Most people loved Emerson. We cheered like drunken Monkeys when Kenny and Helio won the 500. And Mario wasn't born here, but we sure made him ours. Like I said, we don't want to exclude the foriegners. But we don't want to see good Americans pushed out to make room for the next Jordain or other backmarker. I don't want to see quotas established either, as I am opposed to them elsewhere in our culture. I would just like to see American companies step up and back American drivers the same way the Brazillian drivers get funding from their compatriot companies. How to accomplish this is not something i have the answer for. But Bill France seems to have the answer.

But i really don't think it is unreasonable to want more than two funded Americans in what has it's roots in the American national driving championship.



"Sorry for the rant,"

Sure, I've never done a rant!


"and then sit back and watch in peace and quiet as I get flamed..."

Perhaps sharing a cold brew would be more appropriate.......

[Dr. Austin]

[i]Originally posted by The Beer Baron


Compare with Lance Armstrong.. [/B]

"

How do you compare anyone with a guy who got off his death bed, and beat the world in the most gruelling sport with only one testicle? If this guy can't inspire us, we are not paying attention. On a really good day, I can cycle pretty hard for 20 miles or so. But to race the world's fittest and strongest studs for 18 days is waaaaaaay beyond anything most of us can comprehend. And he did it with only one testicle! Iron man indeed! I hope he races cars when he retires.

[Liz]

And then there's the American Le Mans series. Owned by an American and operated in America, and none of the top drivers or teams except Corvette (whose top drivers are NOT AMERICAN -- no matter what Sam Posey says) are American.

I guess we'd better kick Audi and Porsche and BMW the hell out of the series, not to mention Konrad Saleen, and while we are at it, boot all them dadgum furriners out of the Panoz cars: Magnussen, Brabham, Lagorce, Graf, what the hell are them furrin guys doing in an All Amurrican Owned Series run in Amurrica? Get them outa them cars and put in people whose first names are Little and whose last names are Junior!

Oh, wait, Dr. Panoz hired these furrin guys and signed up these furrin teams! Obviously he is a traitor and a subversive and needs deprogramming at once! Call the police! Call the Army! Call the FBI!

Call it off, guys. As you can see, the argument falls of its own weight. Americans are far from monolithic, lock-stepping goobers who can only focus their eyes down the tunnel right in front of their faces. Otherwise, why would there be 5,000 television channels and not ONLY ONE?

===================

This particular wretched and repititious argument crops up about every month or six weeks, in which some closet NASCAR fan insists that any series run in America and any team owned by Americans should run solely and only American drivers or Americans will refuse to watch the series or cheer for the drivers.

This no doubt explains why Tony George (may fire ants infest his mother's burqa)runs the Formula One Grand Prix on his track, when, last time I checked, Formula One has not had an Amurrican driver or a winning Amurrican team in quite some number of years. He spent all that money to stage that race TWICE -- Because he knew that Americans would not attend, watch, or care?

[The Beer Baron]

A shootout in an IRL car at TMS, Jacques Lazier and Lance Armstrong
Who would win?

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Liz

And then there's the American Le Mans series. Owned by an American and operated in America, and none of the top drivers or teams except Corvette (whose top drivers are NOT AMERICAN -- no matter what Sam Posey says) are American."


The operative word here is "LeMans," which has always been international, inspite of it's bias towards French teams and drivers. Sportscar racing has always been and always will be, international.
I wasn't aware this thread was moved to the sportscar section.

And Don Panoz is an Irish immigrant. I do not know if he is naturalized, but i would be proud for him to be an American. I am equally sure he would be proud to be one. I will ask him when we meet at Sebring. He is one class act. He is what America is made of.


"Get them outa them cars and put in people whose first names are Little and whose last names are Junior!"

I am proud to be named after such a great humanitarian and American as my father. Yes, I am a "Little Mikey." Yes, I am Dr. Michael Austin, jr. That is as much as i could muster without being impolite.




"this particular wretched and repititious argument crops up about every month or six weeks, in which some closet NASCAR fan insists that any series run in America and any team owned by Americans should run solely and only American drivers or Americans will refuse to watch the series or cheer for the drivers."

That has not been said or implied on this thread. That is the attitude in NASCAR, but it is not my attitude. I have not watched a NASCAR race since 1988. So, I, at least, am no closet NASCAR fan. And watch the name calling, ok? Aren't there rules here?




"This no doubt explains why Tony George (may fire ants infest his mother's burqa)"


What did Mary Hulman George do to you? She is a really nice woman. Have you met her? Have you tried her apple pie? Do you know the very first thing about her? You don't see IRL fans wishing anything bad on anyone in CART. Maybe they just aren't as bitter. Maybe they are grownups.

In your profile, you claim to be Tony george's "enemy." Did he attack you personally? Did he kill your cat and eat it (Good for him, tastes just like chicken)? Good Lord, it's just motorsports. I dispise the way schumacher conducts his sporting activities, but I don't wish him any bad intentions (other than a JPM spanking). Autoracing is just not that important to hate people over it. Get over it and have a good laugh.

Tony George is going to save American OW racing while CART swirls down the bowl. It is not a good sign that you take such a personal attitude towards someone running a business with the best interests of his company at heart. Tony could care nothing less about money and power. He HAS the money and power. All he cares about is the destiny he has been charged with; protecting the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Screw CART, Tony's only responsibility is to the future and traditions of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. When the statue of liberty washes up on the beach and monkeys rule the earth, there will still be racing around what used to be 16th and Georgetown. And there will still be a Hulman/George calling the shots.



If CART has to go down to protect the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, CART has to go DOWN, baby!



"last time I checked, Formula One has not had an Amurrican driver or a winning Amurrican team in quite some number of years."

Your disrespect for Americans is pretty distasteful. Especially now. Maybe Parker and Stone were on to something.

Rent the movie.

We don't paint all Canadians to be like Terrance and Phillip, but using the broad brush to depict us as hillbillys who can't spell or pronounce "American" is pretty lame.




Yes, after watching 5000 of my loved ones murdered in cold blood, I have an attitude. If you could show a little respect for America, I might buy you a beer sometime. At an international ALMS race. Maybe with Gary and Jan in tow. Even if they are "furreners."

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
A shootout in an IRL car at TMS, Jacques Lazier and Lance Armstrong
Who would win?

Actually, it would be a better test of guts to pit Lance against the man who won the world's greatest race with a broken back; Buddy Larier. Broke back against, errrrr, cyclops. Undying respect for the fortitude of both men. Both would make John Wayne proud. He IS still alive.

No one is going to have anything for Jacques next year. The new Rick Mears.

[The Beer Baron]

Austin, I didn't know that Dan Panoz's family hail from Ireland?
Is that why a Shamrock is on the Panoz logo?

[Dr. Austin]

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
Austin, I didn't know that Dan Panoz's family hail from Ireland?
Is that why a Shamrock is on the Panoz logo?

My understanding is that Dr. Panoz made his fortune in Ireland, moved to the US, invented the cigarette patch and the rest is history. I hope his 2002 cars are really fast. He is the only one with enough guts to take it to Audi, and I admire guts. Buddy, Lance, Don, and guts!

Go Don!

[Emfa]

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
...
Tony George is going to save American OW racing while CART swirls down the bowl. It is not a good sign that you take such a personal attitude towards someone running a business with the best interests of his company at heart. Tony could care nothing less about money and power. He HAS the money and power. All he cares about is the destiny he has been charged with; protecting the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.

Screw CART, Tony's only responsibility is to the future and traditions of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. When the statue of liberty washes up on the beach and monkeys rule the earth, there will still be racing around what used to be 16th and Georgetown. And there will still be a Hulman/George calling the shots.

Say WHAT??? :confused: :confused: TG saviour of OW racing!?!?!?!?!? By protecting IMS and "screwing" everything else? TG cares nothing about money & power!?!?!?!?!?!

Originally posted by Dr. Austin
Your disrespect for Americans is pretty distasteful. Especially now.
...
We don't paint all Canadians to be like Terrance and Phillip, but using the broad brush to depict us as hillbillys who can't spell or pronounce "American" is pretty lame.

Yes, after watching 5000 of my loved ones murdered in cold blood, I have an attitude. If you could show a little respect for America, I might buy you a beer sometime. ...

Which "Americans" are you refering to? Which part of "America"? And Liz Canadian? Whoa!!

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by Emfa "

Say WHAT??? :confused: :confused: TG saviour of OW racing!?!?!?!?!?"

that's right. CART has made such a mess out of their own series that Tony had to be sure that they didn't take the speedway down with them. I think the utter choas going on in both the sporting and business side of CART is the real proof that Tony George could see it coming alot sooner than any of us. The more that CART digs their own grave, the more of tony's wisdom is showing. He is a smart guy to get away from that self serving bunch of sharks.



"By protecting IMS and "screwing" everything else? "

CART had the opportunity to work with the King, but they wouldn't even give him one crappy little vote on their 24 man board. They just let him sit and observe like a good little child. that is how little respect they had not only for the man running the speedway, but the speedway itself. Tony never "screwed" anyone. He set up his own series and invited everyone to participate. CART screwed themselves into the corner they are now in and they deserve everything that they have brought upon themselves. Too bad that CART's fans are going to pay the price, but they don't care about us, anyway. Corporate bottom line, baby!

Talk about greed! How many of the CART board members are flaunting a blantant conflict of interest? Some of the owners on the cart board promote races and own stock in engine companies. Penske used to own some of the speedways. He was one of the official rebuilders of Chevy, and later Mercedes engines. He used his influence in Illmor to have a special one-off motor built (1994) that was never made available to anyone else, thus "screwing" everyone else. Who is screwing who? The CART owners are the most arrogant and decietful bunch the sport has ever seen, yet you sneer at George's efforts.

Know this for an indellible fact; Tony George has all the money and he has all the power. More won't satisfy him. Seeing American OW racing prosper under his benevolent leadership will satisfy him. Why don't you sit down with the man and ask him yourself? He is a neat guy, a little shy, but if you make him laugh even once, he will be your buddy.


The CART owners have plenty of outside business interests to tend to when they make decisions regarding their series. Tony has one interest and one interest only; The Indianapolis Motor Speedway.



" TG cares nothing about money & power!?!?!?!?!?!"

Well, at least we agree on something. Tony already has the money and the power. Yet, the CART teams get a fair shake everytime they compete in an IRL race. No abuse of power. I respect a fair man.



"Which "Americans" are you refering to? Which part of "America"? "

Respectfully, please be more specific in what you are asking and i will be glad to address your question. I just don't understand what you mean.


"And Liz Canadian? Whoa!!"

Read her profile. the last time i checked a map, toronto is still in Canada.

[jb]

I'm sure Liz will be back to set the record straight on her own behalf, but i had to laugh out loud at this statement...

From Dr. Austin (is he(?) from Austin Texas(??)????

Well the math is pretty simple;
NASCAR = no foriegners = wild success

That reasoning is so ridiculous I can't bother to follow the rest of the soapbox arguments. bye!

[mac]

I'm sick of these threads being turned into America vs The World. It really is getting pretty boring.

Just a thought, though. If Indy is the be all and end all of open wheel racing (and following the line of save IMS, screw everything else), what do you think the state of OW racing in America would be if there was only one OW race held in America every year at Indianapolis? Surely this couldn't be of any benefit to OW racing in America.

And where would TG get his American driver for his beloved f1 race (seeing as even more people would turn up to the GP if an American is involved)?

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by jb

I'm sure Liz will be back to set the record straight on her own behalf,"

Read her profile. It says she is from Toronto. If that is incorrect, I apologize in advance.

"From Dr. Austin (is he(?) from Austin Texas(??)????"

How original. Do you write your own material?



Well the math is pretty simple;
NASCAR = no foriegners = wild success

"That reasoning is so ridiculous I can't bother to follow the rest of the soapbox arguments. bye!"

You can't dispute it either, so you just say it is ridiculous and disappear. Facts are that NASCAR is making serious hay by merely providing what the people want to see. Disputing that is what is ridiculous. I don't care for NASCAR even one little bit, but no one can argue their dominating success. If it isn't because the fans identify with the drivers, then just exactly what is it?

[Dr. Austin]

[QUOTE][i]Originally posted by mac


Just a thought, though. If Indy is the be all and end all of open wheel racing (and following the line of save IMS, screw everything else), what do you think the state of OW racing in America would be if there was only one OW race held in America every year at Indianapolis?"

It would still be the Indianapolis 500. Everyone worth a damn would still give everything they have to win it.

But there won't be just one race. There will always be an IRL. That series is not going to disappear. Never. Tony George will spend whatever it takes and so what? It's HIS money. The IRL is now part of the speedway and will prosper right along with it. It has only been six years and the IRL is gaining steam every race. It is gaining new events and new facilities. It is gaining new manufacturers and new chassis builders. And it is gaining new teams, some defecting from CART itself. Most importantly, it is gaining new fans. Lots of new fans.


Take a look around the speedway and then tell me it isn't prospering. The same approach that George has applied to the speedway is just now making itself felt in the IRL. Slow, but steady growth. Sure, there are financial issues that need urgent attention, but i am done questioning Tony George's plan. He will get it worked out. He has done a great job with a series that "will never turn a wheel." Six years of wheel turning to be exact.

The IRL is only six full seasons old and alot more solvent that CART was after a similar period. They have a marquee event. They also now have CART's marquee event. And Fontana is next. Penske is still in evidence at that place and there is no forgetting the "punch in the nose."



"And where would TG get his American driver for his beloved f1 race (seeing as even more people would turn up to the GP if an American is involved)?"

CART hasn't churned out many American F-1 pilots either (and remember that Mikey didn't do particularly well ). But it also isn't realistic to expect to see the next weltmiester coming from an all oval series, either. This is a problem that absolutely NO ONE is addressing.

If Americans can't get a decent ride in CART, how do you expect them to get enough attention to get an F-1 ride? But if an American does well in the IRL, he still hasn't shown any road racing skills essential to grand Prix success.

The only answer for any American wanting a future in F-1 is to go to Europe and look good enough to get in. Even then, he might still have to bring some money, if only to get a test or two. That costs really BIG money. American sponsors just won't go for that. Not when those F-3 and F-3000 races aren't even shown here. European sponsors won't support an unknown American driver, so what does a yank have to do to get a look in?

It is all fine and well to say "go to Europe," but someone has to pay for it. With NASCAR sucking up all the available US sponsor dollars, what is left for Americans who want to race outside their country where no one at home will see them?

I am willing to listen carefully to anyone who has a good plan. It has been waaaaaay too long since Mario handed them a spanking. American needs it's heros pretty badly right now. I don't care what series the next American world champion comes from. I just want him to be in F-1 and winning now.