[Rules] 2026 Power Units

[Adam43]

As a compromise then they could think of some way of combining a ICE engine and a battery powered EV to give around 1000hp and improved efficiency.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Adam43

As a compromise then they could think of some way of combining a ICE engine and a battery powered EV to give around 1000hp and improved efficiency.

That is such a great idea! They should look into doing something like that.

Richard

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Adam43

As a compromise then they could think of some way of combining a ICE engine and a battery powered EV to give around 1000hp and improved efficiency.

You mean take an existing idea from road cars and apply it to F1? What a good idea.

[Richard C]

Misc rumors about the direction of the future power units are floating about. As I mentioned in the Honda thread, apparently everyone now is talking 2026 and not 2025. I didn't really understand this. I have tried to dig. It seems initially the discussion was 2025 or 2026 with the year somewhat not fully defined. Then everyone was saying 2025. Within the past month or so, now everyone is saying 2026.

Broadly it seems we are gravitating to...
* No MGU-H
* Much larger MHU-K
* Larger battery pack
* Synthetic fuels
* Potential for adjustments (or removal) of fuel flow limits

I found this interesting article...

https://www.grandprix247.com/2021/09...-f1-pu-future/

It basically is saying why Mercedes holds the cards and what Mercedes is asking for in return if they agree. Interesting quote from the article...

That the current Concorde Agreement be extended by at least 12 months, effectively quashing the FIA and F1’s ability to formulate new PU regulations unilaterally without consultation for that period

The key here is that the current Concorde Agreement runs through 2025. So I assume that agreement defines how decisions are made within the life of the agreement, but not for after. So I assume Mercedes is concerned that F1/FIA will just arbitrarily make decisions for 2026 and not require thumbs up/down from Mercedes (or any of the other existing players).

There is some other interesting items in that article. Including that Mercedes wants any new supplier (including Red Bull) to pay some type of fee to become a power unit supplier.

Richard

[Casper]

The longer F1 put off changing the greater the pressure will be to abandon ICE altogether. By 2026 all European manufacturers will have dropped development of ICE's as they will only be a few years out from having to stop retail sales in Europe. Asian manufacturers are not showing the same headlong rush because their primary markets are not in Europe. There is no way on God's earth that ICE will stop altogether as the less populated areas of the worlds simply can't support BEV so hybrid is most probably going to predominate in those areas. It seems to me that F1 is between a rock and that well known hard place in choosing what to do.

[Richard C]

Agreement has been reached on the 2026+ Power Unit Regulations.

Short version...

* Sustainable fuel (not fossil based carbon)
* V6 1.6L Turbo ICE
* Reduced fuel flow rate with power target of 400kW
* Bottom end of ICE much more controlled (more prescribed)
* Top end (combustion) will be where more creativity is allowed.
* Overall ICE is more prescribed
* MGU-H removed
* More standardization of various components
* ERS to increase in power to 350kW
* Power cells an area for creativity
* More prescriptive regulations (spec if you want to call it) are to prevent good/bad solutions being "locked in" for power unit providers.
* Restrictions on power unit bench test setups (i.e. dynos)
* Financial regulations have hit power unit development. Previously this was unregulated. There are now cost caps for development. The goal is to ensure overall balance of performance (my words not their words) and to ensure long term stability of the series.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...ions/10353602/

Richard

[Richard C]

Documents that cover financial, technical and sporting if anyone is interested in reading...

FORMULA 1 POWER UNIT FINANCIAL REGULATIONS
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2022-08-16.pdf

2026 FORMULA 1 POWER UNIT TECHNICAL REGULATIONS
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2022-08-16.pdf

2026 FORMULA 1 POWER UNIT SPORTING REGULATIONS
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/fi...2022-08-16.pdf

Richard

[Richard C]

(Mods, feel free to adjust thread title from 2025+ to 2026+)

Richard

[tux]

How super exciting...... Honestly, i cant help but feel these last 12 years life has gone downhill markedly. The last 3 years its accelerated. Terrified as to where the world is going to end up. It seems like every piece of joy is being ripped from me in the name of "going green" or "build back better". Maybe im the only one that feels that way since its showing no sign of slowing down.

[S griffin]

The hybrid era has not lived up to it's promise. These new engine rules need to work and strike the right balance between keeping the fans excited and being sustainable

[VIVA GT]

F1 also need to make a bigger song and dance about how damned efficient the engines are too. It's a brilliant way of fanfaring the engineering prowess that exists within motorsport.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by tux

It seems like every piece of joy is being ripped from me in the name of "going green" or "build back better".

To be fair, some people enjoy their electric cars. Some of them are very fast. More and more electric hot hatches and electric sportscars will come onto the market in due course.

The Mini Cooper SE is considered quite a good electric hot hatch, it achieves a light 1363kg kerb weight, only 100kg more than the ICE Cooper S by having a very small battery and a range of 90-110 miles. The handling and performance of the electric Cooper S is said to be very comparable to the combustion powered Cooper S.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

F1 also need to make a bigger song and dance about how damned efficient the engines are too. It's a brilliant way of fanfaring the engineering prowess that exists within motorsport.

To be honest, not that many people care. With the elimination of the MGU-H in 2026, the thermal efficiency of the engines will go down from 50% to around 43%. The regulators have taken this into account while formulating these new regulations, and the fuel tank size and fuel flow rates.

Presumably the 2026 F1 cars will have much, much larger batteries. They will essentially be a 350 kW Formula E powertrain supplemented by a detuned version of the old 1.6 V6 turbos. I wouldn't mind seeing a 1000kg kerb weight to accomodate the larger battery and better reflect the trends of road-going EVs which tend to be heavy vehicles if they have a large range...

"Socially relevant" is the phrase the FIA are using to describe the partial electrification of F1, as opposed to socially irrelevant internal combustion engines!

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

To be honest, not that many people care. With the elimination of the MGU-H in 2026, the thermal efficiency of the engines will go down from 50% to around 43%. The regulators have taken this into account while formulating these new regulations, and the fuel tank size and fuel flow rates.

Presumably the 2026 F1 cars will have much, much larger batteries. They will essentially be a 350 kW Formula E powertrain supplemented by a detuned version of the old 1.6 V6 turbos. I wouldn't mind seeing a 1000kg kerb weight to accomodate the larger battery and better reflect the trends of road-going EVs which tend to be heavy vehicles if they have a large range...

"Socially relevant" is the phrase the FIA are using to describe the partial electrification of F1, as opposed to socially irrelevant internal combustion engines!

A 1,000 kg F1 car? Crikey.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by peebee2

A 1,000 kg F1 car? Crikey.

Market relevance!

That's still a featherweight compared to the 2300kg Porsche Taycan and other road-going EV sport saloons.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by peebee2

A 1,000 kg F1 car? Crikey.

Chapman, with his weight obsession would be turning in his grave

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Market relevance!

That's still a featherweight compared to the 2300kg Porsche Taycan and other road-going EV sport saloons.

Maybe, but it's no F1 car.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Maybe, but it's no F1 car.

It is if you're willing to look forward and not backwards.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

It is if you're willing to look forward and not backwards.

How dare you point out the obvious sir

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Agreement has been reached on the 2026+ Power Unit Regulations.

Short version...


* ERS to increase in power to 350kW

That is the upper limit which seems to be impossible to achieve due to short regeneration times caused by short throttle off periods in F1. The braking zones are very short in time and to regenerate and top up the electrical system if the full 350kw is utilised seems to be unlikely. If the full 350kw is not topped up then it would seem we are in for a strategic economy run instead of a foot to the floor race but that happens now anyway. The other contributing factor is no regeneration from the front axle which seems a bit odd. It is likely that ERS development is going to be a priority over ICE development.

[Adam43]

It might be a short time, but here is still a lot of energy required. Braking from 200 to 100 mph in 5s or 2s requires similar energy. Is there an upper limit to the power can be (re-)generated by the motor? Adding to the front axle could have helped that.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It might be a short time, but here is still a lot of energy required. Braking from 200 to 100 mph in 5s or 2s requires similar energy. Is there an upper limit to the power can be (re-)generated by the motor? Adding to the front axle could have helped that.

Exactly that, it's not the time that's critical, it's the energy potential and the braking in an F1 car is extreme to say the least

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Exactly that, it's not the time that's critical, it's the energy potential and the braking in an F1 car is extreme to say the least

Agree.

Overall, it sounds like the ICE part of the overall solution is going to be very prescriptive and not an area for much creativity. The creativity is going to be around the electrical system in general (even if some of that might be spec parts). Efficiency and intelligence in the regeneration, storage and application of the MGU-K will be a focus. One example is to NOT be burning extra fuel just for purposes of charging batteries (or only do when necessary). Another is to use MGU-K to help address turbo lag (previously handled by MGU-H).

Richard

[chillibowl]

not nearly as technically minded as you guys but as times move on and different challenges emerge in the wider world, must say i find myself far less interested in the energy recovery systems and far more interested in the biofuels F1 will be using.

how long will it take them to get to 100% biofuels, how much closer are their partners in developing a truly synthesised but sustainable fuel, can they drive road car requirements away from biofuels which still mainly rely on food stock us etc etc?

within the framework of the budget cap, can the sport balance the need to curb spending with being relevant in an area that needs more attention and funding?

already the cooling effects of the synthetics fuels have already changed the design philosophy...size zero side pods which, for example, begs the question of what an F1 car is supposed to look like? can the relationship between biofuel and design aesthetic create a pathway back to smaller lighter cars? does a cooling effect on the engines allow the engines to deal with the excess heat from combustion differently (not sure how else to phrase that) and could we see even more thermally efficient engines as a result?

no doubt i find this stuff interesting/have more questions about it is because i do lack the required technical understanding but its also because ts new(ish)? mgu-k feels a little old bag at this point?

[Adam43]

I liked the mgu-h. Seemed a neat solution, but obviously expensive.

A proper well done biofuel fuel - love it for net CO2, but not good for reduction of local emissions.