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Old 20 Jan 2013, 11:24 (Ref:3191713)   #26
Umai Naa
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Triple Eight Australia have been separate from their UK counterparts for a number of years now.

Hardly a Pommie team now.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 12:00 (Ref:3191724)   #27
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This is the challenge of when a sport becomes a business. When you have to mix the rewards for performance and excellence versus the reality of maintaining the health of the competition and the participants financially.

You see in English football how Man U, Liverpool and Arsenal were the "Big Three" and crushed all other clubs with earning and spending power for years. It took a couple of Oil multi-billionaires spending cash with abandon to upset that formula with City and Chelsea. It is now just a case of whether Man U, Man C or Chelsea will win each year. Same result, different teams.

Football codes in Australia have the salary cap to promote a level playing field (like the pun). Racing has never really had this except in one make arrive and drive series. So the V8's now find themselves battling a conflict between history and need.

No winning team likes to handicap themselves but a 9 car series with 888, FPR and HRT is in no-ones interest. The challenge is that what is desired and the best balance is an equality of opportunity not equality of outcome. The problem is that is very hard to deliver in a open competitive environment, and equality of outcome is easy.

The COTF was seen as a way to reduce costs and give teams a new development curve and potentially more access to funds. The problem lies in that it cost so much both in terms of new development, build but also the lowering of prices teams received for their old gear. (I have heard of top 10 championship cars scraping just over the 100k mark as rollers) On top of this, the loss of income from franchise payments from the latest round of deals means that even if these cars do cost less to run, it is offset by this cut.

Big budgets always win out, they can hire the best people and buy the best bits. 888 landed the best sponsorship deal and then got manufacturers funding. I hope we may get some interesting result as drivers and teams come to terms with the new gear, sooner or later the same world order will be established.

Any dominant body decreases the excitement of a sport or competition, it is a natural thing if likelihood of an outcome increases the interest in that outcome decreases. 888 have been amazing but if the others cannot find a way to raise themselves to there level, there may yet be a need to pull them back to everyone elses level for the sake of the sport
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 13:09 (Ref:3191745)   #28
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Any dominant body decreases the excitement of a sport or competition, it is a natural thing if likelihood of an outcome increases the interest in that outcome decreases. 888 have been amazing but if the others cannot find a way to raise themselves to there level, there may yet be a need to pull them back to everyone elses level for the sake of the sport
Handicapping has no place in this sport. Leave it as is. If BJR cant roll out a competitive car week in and week out, thats their issue, not T8s for winning.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 19:15 (Ref:3191825)   #29
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Handicapping has no place in this sport. Leave it as is. If BJR cant roll out a competitive car week in and week out, thats their issue, not T8s for winning.
stealth that is my point. v8 supercars is now more business than sport.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 20:52 (Ref:3191860)   #30
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stealth that is my point. v8 supercars is now more business than sport.
Well said Ross, it's the fact of the situation.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 22:22 (Ref:3191893)   #31
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stealth that is my point. v8 supercars is now more business than sport.
I'm not aware of any business that would implement measures to make their most productive employee less productive

Imagine how crap a tv deal they'd get if the results were swayed by making the best guys stop and wait for everyone.

If I had a business, I'd want it as fair as possible. I bet they'll lose a lot more 'business' by slowing down the fast guys (plus they'll probably leave, followed by the next team that takes their place, and so on a million times until the series dries up to nothing)

Last edited by STEALTHY; 20 Jan 2013 at 22:35.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 23:08 (Ref:3191913)   #32
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I watch BTCC because the winners get ballast for the next race. The top teams still come out on top at the end of the year, but you're never sure which races they are going to be able to win. I never missed a round of BTCC, but I sure skipped many V8 Supercar rounds.

It does not make business sense to lose viewer interest in the sport by winning every race of every event. Potential customers are not tuning in as regularly to view the sponsors on the car.

And I can guarantee that of all my friends and workmates, very few were bothering to watch the races at the end of the year last year because they 'already know who is going to win'.

There has to be a balance to keep the casual viewers watching. Sure, you hardcore Holden fans want to watch 888 win every race forever, but I can assure you that all casual viewers don't feel the same way.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 23:18 (Ref:3191915)   #33
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
The thing is, anything that is implemented to nobble a successful team/car/driver would always be seen as a gimmick. Just like the reverse grid/top 10/top 6 races we had back in the early 2000s. It was great watching the guys at the front tripping over eachother trying to make a break from the field, and likewises for those carving their way through the pack in much faster cars. But at the end of the day, it wasn't pure racing.

Maybe we need to bring back the Peter Jackson Dash
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 23:26 (Ref:3191917)   #34
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But at the end of the day, it wasn't pure racing.
I agree. But we've just gone through saying that racing is a business now. Even Formula1 has introduced gimmicks to boost viewer figures. Why? To get more people watching, to increase appeal to sponsors.

I can understand that diehard fans want pure racing with no gimmicks. But it doesn't make business sense, and the diehard fans are not willing to pay for it themselves either. They just like to talk about it and hope someone else does.

People have so many entertainment options these days that categories have to compete for your attention. If I know that Schumacher and Ferrari stood a 98% chance of winning the race, I wasn't as dedicated to tuning in and watching it as when the title was being fought by 3 different drivers from 3 different teams.
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Old 20 Jan 2013, 23:26 (Ref:3191918)   #35
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Reload should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridReload should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Did i hear salary cap ?
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 00:02 (Ref:3191924)   #36
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Supercars is a dud category that has offered very little to anyone but holden and it's supporters..........it will be interesting to see how KR/Nissan and Erebus/AMG are treated in this new era..........will they simply be allowed to wither and die because of the old rigid and antiquated parity system?
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 00:13 (Ref:3191926)   #37
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Did i hear salary cap ?
Plus one, if it could be policed
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 00:36 (Ref:3191933)   #38
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I agree. But we've just gone through saying that racing is a business now. Even Formula1 has introduced gimmicks to boost viewer figures. Why? To get more people watching, to increase appeal to sponsors.

I can understand that diehard fans want pure racing with no gimmicks. But it doesn't make business sense, and the diehard fans are not willing to pay for it themselves either. They just like to talk about it and hope someone else does.

People have so many entertainment options these days that categories have to compete for your attention. If I know that Schumacher and Ferrari stood a 98% chance of winning the race, I wasn't as dedicated to tuning in and watching it as when the title was being fought by 3 different drivers from 3 different teams.
What success ballast do F1 use? Gimmicks are fine (push to pass would be the only one I don't like), just don't make up the results as you go.
If we're doing that, we might aswell change to drawing the winners name out if a hat, or make it that you can only win one race per year, you know, to keep it interesting for viewers
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 00:40 (Ref:3191934)   #39
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What success ballast do F1 use?
None that I know of. I never said F1 uses success ballast.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 02:54 (Ref:3191960)   #40
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None that I know of. I never said F1 uses success ballast.
So the sport that is widely regarded as the pinnacle of motorsport, doesn't use ballast, but some have suggested it'll work for V8s? Righto

They're probably more of a business than V8SC will ever be.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 03:02 (Ref:3191962)   #41
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So the sport that is widely regarded as the pinnacle of motorsport, doesn't use ballast, but some have suggested it'll work for V8s? Righto

They're probably more of a business than V8SC will ever be.
If you're suggesting that I said V8 Supercars need success ballast specifically, then you've missed the point completely.

I have said that Formula1 uses gimmicks (DRS etc). BTCC uses gimmicks (success ballast). Both are very popular with casual mainstream viewers (read: potential customers of potential sponsors) at the moment. One driver winning every race in the V8 Supercars is not popular at the moment.

Except with you of course.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 04:34 (Ref:3191981)   #42
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If you're suggesting that I said V8 Supercars need success ballast specifically, then you've missed the point completely.

I have said that Formula1 uses gimmicks (DRS etc). BTCC uses gimmicks (success ballast). Both are very popular with casual mainstream viewers (read: potential customers of potential sponsors) at the moment. One driver winning every race in the V8 Supercars is not popular at the moment.

Except with you of course.
No, someone else suggested it, but it followed on from what you were pointing out about F1.

Theres a distinct difference between those 2. If you cant see it, theres not really any point continuing
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 04:37 (Ref:3191983)   #43
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Supercars is a dud category that has offered very little to anyone but holden and it's supporters..........it will be interesting to see how KR/Nissan and Erebus/AMG are treated in this new era..........will they simply be allowed to wither and die because of the old rigid and antiquated parity system?
Yes a huge failure, only the most succesfull category in Oz motorsport history and now has had 2 major introductions in Nissan Motorsport and Erubus (or how ever its spelled). Name another category here with the crowds & tv $$$'s
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 04:48 (Ref:3191993)   #44
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Yes a huge failure, only the most succesfull category in Oz motorsport history and now has had 2 major introductions in Nissan Motorsport and Erubus (or how ever its spelled). Name another category here with the crowds & tv $$$'s
There's just a lot of holden supporters.....they had better look after Nissan and Erebus because support from the blue side seems to be dropping off, both from the company and the supporters.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 04:55 (Ref:3191997)   #45
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There's just a lot of holden supporters.....they had better look after Nissan and Erebus because support from the blue side seems to be dropping off, both from the company and the supporters.
Support from the company has been here and there for 50 years, no change now. They will put their midsize shape on the car after the falcon goes west.

As for the newbies, well Nissan have always been big in Oz motorsport. Cant see the Mercs going anywhere. And from What ive heard Chrysler are waiting in the wings to give themselves more time to prepare for GRM in 2014. I think the category can survive Fords lack of interest.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 05:14 (Ref:3191999)   #46
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Theres a distinct difference between those 2. If you cant see it, theres not really any point continuing
I don't know where you come up with the idea that I think they are exactly the same. You're totally missing the point about gimmicks (no matter how different) being used to make the racing more interesting (in different ways) to attract a greater audience. I am finished with it, however. No hard feelings, enjoy your racing.
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Old 21 Jan 2013, 05:53 (Ref:3192002)   #47
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I don't know where you come up with the idea that I think they are exactly the same. You're totally missing the point about gimmicks (no matter how different) being used to make the racing more interesting (in different ways) to attract a greater audience. I am finished with it, however. No hard feelings, enjoy your racing.
My post that you originally quoted was replying to a suggestion to use handicapping for the winning teams. That is what my comments are based on.

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