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Old 14 Sep 2019, 09:37 (Ref:3927878)   #26
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yeah what a disaster, Scotty has a terrible day and ends fifth. Waters tries to take out his teammate, again. All Mustangs still in the top 10.

Time to build a bridge.
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 10:02 (Ref:3927882)   #27
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Well it looks like the relentless efforts in nobbling the Mustang and favourably adjusting the Opel have now started to pay off.

888 would no doubt be very pleased with their handiwork.
Supercars have been desperate to give the holden teams an advantage before Bathurst.
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 10:16 (Ref:3927884)   #28
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Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Ah yes, just in time for the exclusive Bathurst tinfoil hat, available from the Tickford and DJRTP merch trucks.
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 10:52 (Ref:3927890)   #29
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Ah yes, just in time for the exclusive Bathurst tinfoil hat, available from the Tickford and DJRTP merch trucks.
And history books from you local library.
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 14:06 (Ref:3927914)   #30
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V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Ah yes, just in time for the exclusive Bathurst tinfoil hat, available from the Tickford and DJRTP merch trucks.
It would be a travesty if the ZB Commodore has an unfair advantage at Bathurst.

If the downforce matched on the VCAT test, how can adding 40kg more downforce to the Commodore prove the downforce still matches the others!? It makes no sense.

Likewise when downforce was taken from the Mustang, how can it still match the others!?

The other way to sort it is with another VCAT test!
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 15:14 (Ref:3927925)   #31
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Casper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridCasper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Parity never worked in any racing category, F1 is a prime example of that.
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Old 14 Sep 2019, 22:41 (Ref:3927990)   #32
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Parity never worked in any racing category, F1 is a prime example of that.
And then there is dodgy parity, which is a particularly bad form of parity, and something which is uniquely deployed by Supercars.

Quoting Scotty:
“I think with the adjustments on the Holden there’s a few more happy faces down the end there.
“They know what they’ve found, hence why it (the changes) never went to the commission.
https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/09/15...the-back-foot/
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 02:58 (Ref:3928024)   #33
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Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Half a second covering the top 8 which includes all 6 Mustangs and the Ford fairies are crying parity and Roland's chequebook... Feck me
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 03:31 (Ref:3928027)   #34
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Half a second covering the top 8 which includes all 6 Mustangs and the Ford fairies are crying parity and Roland's chequebook... Feck me
How come T8 have taken a sudden leap in front of the other holden teams, must have been sandbagging all along!!!
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 04:18 (Ref:3928030)   #35
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Half a second covering the top 8 which includes all 6 Mustangs and the Ford fairies are crying parity and Roland's chequebook... Feck me
That's great Mixup, but there was also a only half a second covering the top 8 at the opening round in Adelaide, with Opels in positions 2, 4 and 6; and that was some 6 months ago.

If the whole thing is such a non-issue, and if your above nominated criteria is the be-all and end-all; then why would Supercars/Holden pursue at least 6 revisions against the Mustang over the course of the season?
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 07:50 (Ref:3928054)   #36
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Half a second covering the top 8 which includes all 6 Mustangs and the Ford fairies are crying parity and Roland's chequebook... Feck me
Hopefully Rogers 16 million dollar cheque clears before Bathurst..........

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 15:31 (Ref:3928125)   #37
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Karting is the epitome of parity racing and it is just as unsuccessful there as in car racing. What happens is the field initially closes up but the well founded teams start spending big money for very small incremental increases in performance just as F1 has done. The closer you get to the brick wall of rules the smaller the incremental increases become and the more money is spent for less results but that does not stop the money being spent. The less well off teams are then left floundering because they cannot match the spending. Every attempt at trying to create parity eventually fails because the intention never matches the facts.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 22:49 (Ref:3928224)   #38
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Parity never worked in any racing category, F1 is a prime example of that.
F1 is not a parity series.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 22:54 (Ref:3928225)   #39
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F1 is not a parity series.
Is Supercars a parity series? Seems to me like they can't make up their mind if they are or aren't.
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Old 15 Sep 2019, 23:59 (Ref:3928230)   #40
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F1 is not a parity series.
Yep, F1 is not a parity formula and nor is karting, also referenced here.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 00:02 (Ref:3928232)   #41
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Is Supercars a parity series? Seems to me like they can't make up their mind if they are or aren't.
Yeah it is and we saw evidence of that in the lead up to this weekend's race meeting.

For sure, this year has meant that the tools used to assess parity have needed a fair bit of a shake up and the process to do that has been a bit elongated but it appears that they are getting closer to a point of having parity under better control.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 02:03 (Ref:3928249)   #42
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For sure, this year has meant that the tools used to assess parity have needed a fair bit of a shake up and the process to do that has been a bit elongated but it appears that they are getting closer to a point of having parity under better control.
What on earth gives you this impression?

The whole thing has been farcical from go to whoa, including the last underhanded adjustment done through the back door.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:16 (Ref:3928253)   #43
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Yeah it is and we saw evidence of that in the lead up to this weekend's race meeting.

For sure, this year has meant that the tools used to assess parity have needed a fair bit of a shake up and the process to do that has been a bit elongated but it appears that they are getting closer to a point of having parity under better control.
But what kind of parity?

Technical parity, where all cars are supposedly built to the same rules? Or sporting parity, where all cars are supposedly able to get the same result?

Two very different concepts...
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:18 (Ref:3928255)   #44
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The whole thing has been farcical from go to whoa, including the last underhanded adjustment done through the back door.
That is absolute bullshit, the procedure followed for this adjustment was the same as all of the others, the board delegated to a technical committee, and never approved any parity adjustments because it was not the designated procedure for such.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:35 (Ref:3928256)   #45
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What on earth gives you this impression?

The whole thing has been farcical from go to whoa, including the last underhanded adjustment done through the back door.
What gives me that impression? The tools now in use to assess each make and closeness in the performance of the cars on track as far as can be seen from only 1 race meeting since the change to the Holdens. No one make looking like it had an edge at Puke looks promising but we won't know 100% I guess until a few more tracks - as usual.
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That is absolute bullshit, the procedure followed for this adjustment was the same as all of the others, the board delegated to a technical committee, and never approved any parity adjustments because it was not the designated procedure for such.
Yep - The Commission delegate the authority to the full-time Supercars techo staff, who do the number crunching and analysis and make the call, which in this case was widely announced, nothing remotely "underhand" or "back door" about it.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:40 (Ref:3928259)   #46
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That is absolute bullshit, the procedure followed for this adjustment was the same as all of the others, the board delegated to a technical committee, and never approved any parity adjustments because it was not the designated procedure for such.
No; it was done outside the regular process and can thus be perceived as being underhanded.

And let's not forget the secret parity adjustment done just a few days prior to the Hidden Valley round either.
That was a nice little surprise, for which the details were kept to a select few.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:44 (Ref:3928260)   #47
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But what kind of parity?

Technical parity, where all cars are supposedly built to the same rules? Or sporting parity, where all cars are supposedly able to get the same result?

Two very different concepts...
Good question and your view on the different types of parity does show that sometimes it is all in the eye of the beholder.

In the case of V8SA, it is a parity category and that is based on technical parity. The idea is that regardless of which brand a team races, when that team turns up at the racetrack it has as much chance of a good result as any other team provided the team does as good a job as the other teams - tuning the car, strategy, driver talent/application as examples all come into it. Of course, budgets and capacity to develop & simulate all sorts of components and situations come into it too.

We have seen that through the year when teams running the same make of car have had good/bad weekends in comparison to each other. If parity has been achieved, then the same should apply across all makes in competition. I actually think that the technical parity at the core of V8SA thinking has a little bit of your suggested sporting parity in it but not to the extent of taking measures to equalise between individual drivers/teams.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:48 (Ref:3928261)   #48
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No; it was done outside the regular process and can thus be perceived as being underhanded.

And let's not forget the secret parity adjustment done just a few days prior to the Hidden Valley round either.
That was a nice little surprise, for which the details were kept to a select few.
The latest change was done as part of the regular process and advised to the teams and media - not even remotely underhanded.

The Hidden Valley adjustment was done as part of the regular process and advised to the teams - hardly a "select few" as you suggest. V8SA have clearly updated the process since HV to now ensure it goes to all media as well.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 03:59 (Ref:3928263)   #49
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You can try and excuse the parity farce all you like; but the majority of race fans don't think highly of it (85% in the Speedcafe Poll), Crompton and Kelly didn't think much of it when they resigned from the commission, and the whole thing looks like it's being administered by amateurs.
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Old 16 Sep 2019, 07:33 (Ref:3928271)   #50
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Good question and your view on the different types of parity does show that sometimes it is all in the eye of the beholder.

In the case of V8SA, it is a parity category and that is based on technical parity. The idea is that regardless of which brand a team races, when that team turns up at the racetrack it has as much chance of a good result as any other team provided the team does as good a job as the other teams - tuning the car, strategy, driver talent/application as examples all come into it. Of course, budgets and capacity to develop & simulate all sorts of components and situations come into it too.

We have seen that through the year when teams running the same make of car have had good/bad weekends in comparison to each other. If parity has been achieved, then the same should apply across all makes in competition. I actually think that the technical parity at the core of V8SA thinking has a little bit of your suggested sporting parity in it but not to the extent of taking measures to equalise between individual drivers/teams.
I think the two terms are pretty straightforward, but Supercars has done a poor job of managing expectations. Supercars have stated that they're a series of technical parity, but not sporting parity. Mid season changes made seemingly on a whim don't match this statement well.

If Supercars wants to be a series of pure technical parity, then I think they could go about it a bit better. I actually think they should be considering an approach focused more on sporting parity, as I think this is more likely to get the results that the series and teams want. It's effectively what they're doing now, but without beating around the bush.

Also I can't help but have a dirty taste in my mouth when we can go from talking about Supercars being about technical parity to then talking about the apparent extreme differences between top level and bottom level teams. We're so focused on the difference between Mustang / Commodore / Altima and saying that everything is all good, but then what about the difference between 888 and Tekno? #15 and #78?
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