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Old 13 Apr 2004, 21:05 (Ref:938791)   #51
Alan Jones
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Originally posted by marcus
and god forbid what the top ten shootout would be like

Thanks Marcus!
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Old 13 Apr 2004, 22:42 (Ref:938884)   #52
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It would be very interesting to see just how much AVESCO pays in a dividend/dispersal of profits to shareholders each year, perhaps shareholder SEL for example?

Mike

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Old 14 Apr 2004, 01:47 (Ref:938954)   #53
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Originally posted by TerryK
But would the Chinese go to watch Falcons & Commodores race?
If they could capture 1% of the market for China that would be at least 10 times that of Tassie,again it is numbers.

Funny isn't it how everyone is soooo keen to jump on TC's back and yet both Ford and Holden ,the companies that own the championship to the point of dictating weather another manufacturere can join in are able to allow the series to ignore such a booming market as Tassie

How many people who are keen to email,write to or chain themselves to the AVESCO truck over tassie have complained to either manufacturer about where the championship is going,me thinks none
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 02:22 (Ref:938974)   #54
Anthony Cochran
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Show us the numbers and the money and we'll go to Tasmania - but like it or lump it -if you don't have the figures - go start your own series.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 04:14 (Ref:939014)   #55
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That sounds just like TC line the pockets first the good of the sport last.

The Grumpy1

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Old 14 Apr 2004, 05:56 (Ref:939060)   #56
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Originally posted by Anthony Cochran
Show us the numbers and the money and we'll go to Tasmania - but like it or lump it -if you don't have the figures - go start your own series.
Like Ross Palmer did? Funnily enough, Mr P did not insist on putting "his" cars on street circuits left, right and centre, getting various state and local governments to cough-up heaps of dough to help pay for it and cut business out from under the noses of circuit owners/promoters who actually try to make some sort of living out of their rapidly devaluing pieces of real estate.
It concerns me that, one day when the street circuits have mostly lost their appeal and the race teams need somewhere to race, there will be few proper circuits left for them to race on.
In other words, short term success is not necessarily a good thing for long term security.
It worries me to a degree that even the temple of Australian motorsport, Mount Panorama, might not be as long-term as some would like to think because it is not getting sufficient numbers (read: dollars)compared to some other events.
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 08:28 (Ref:939141)   #57
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Originally posted by stoned pony
Like Ross Palmer did? Funnily enough, Mr P did not insist on putting "his" cars on street circuits left, right and centre, getting various state and local governments to cough-up heaps of dough to help pay for it and cut business out from under the noses of circuit owners/promoters who actually try to make some sort of living out of their rapidly devaluing pieces of real estate.
And isn't that series just ticking along nicely,you could fit the entire field of NC cars on a Finemores car transporter and shuttle the fans to the track in a Greyhound bus.
Slip over to the PROCAR site and see all the happy campers pinching themselves with glee,$45 to get in at Oran Park to see a tad over half a dozen cars ripping around,no real TV deal to speak of and certainly nothing in time for anyone that wasn't related to a board being able to secure a sponser

Threads with tittles like
Oran Park ticket prices

This from some rally dude
a MR Ed Ordin.....
"I am a huge Nations Cup fan but I really think that the cattagory either need serious work or needs to be put to rest. Remember when we had Vipers, Cup Cars, Challenges and Diablo that were all competitive. The Oran park round is embarrising."

Can NC adopt a new style.......

"it is clear to all of us (NC fans) that the decline of the catagory is mostly due to the huge costs of acquiring and running the cars."

Oh yeah what a model to compare with

Do you think that the tracks that have a round would have spent $$$$ on facilitys if the threat of losing a round wasn't real?????????????
If fans/public and competitors in other classes really want these facilitys then why don't they attend any races and pay the true cost of opening the gates???
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Old 14 Apr 2004, 23:29 (Ref:939930)   #58
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The point I was making, Onlooker, was in response to friend Cochran's post.
True, Procar is not as successful as SuperDuperCars but at least Ross Palmer is giving it a go and using existing circuits rather than making demands for an increasing number of street circuits or, on the other hands, demanding big upgrades on established tracks.
I think it is also fair to say that Nations Cup is not the only category Procar runs and the other categories seem to have good numbers.
Palmer and Cochrane are both dictatorial in their attitudes but I would suggest Palmer has a degree of benevolence that seems to be lacking in Cochrane.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 00:42 (Ref:939970)   #59
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I don't think that PROCAR have that many options as far as where they can race,from what I understand PROCAR are unable to get anyone to pay them to come to there venue and as such hire the race facility themselves and act as there own promotor,tracks wont take a punt on them and so they have no choice.
How do you imagine that helps motorsport in general?As far as the track is concerned it is the same as hireing it out to the Lower Mountains Motorcycle Club?
It is just not compareing apples with apples.I see strong parallels with teh end of 2 litre here.
You would have to say that the Porche guys are generally well to do guys that love racing,so they are not dills and can see a sharp bussines idea,how fast did they abandon the ship when the chance came to do CC with AVESCO?
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 00:49 (Ref:939974)   #60
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Do I need to point out which series is the more successful - ours or Procar's?

I rest my case.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 01:29 (Ref:939994)   #61
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Mute point but AVESCO has no control over CC.CC is a support event controlled by Porche and Michelin.

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Old 15 Apr 2004, 01:30 (Ref:939995)   #62
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Shouldn't it be about making every category successful, not gloating about who's is better than who's?
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 02:42 (Ref:940036)   #63
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Very good point, Racer.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 02:48 (Ref:940037)   #64
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My pet peeve........

Hello Tony,

Great to see you bite the bullet and walk into the lions den. This forum is like life, you meet all kinds of people here.

But to my question, what is AVESCO doing about camping facilities at the mount? Officials have put up with a bunch of rubbsih for years and please don't just say its the local council, CAMS, NSW Govt, Feral Gumment or Intergalactic Council's problem.

What is AVESCO doing?
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 03:05 (Ref:940041)   #65
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Ok China has gone this year why not have a one off round in Tassie to test the water,put up with temp garages and slight track upgrades for one year show the government down here what they are missing out on.We now have three ferrys coming in. Over Easter they brought in 12 thousand people from Vic and NSW so that can only help, tell the goverment that this is a test and see what happens.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 03:09 (Ref:940043)   #66
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I would have thought that camp amenities were the responsibility of the track owners, not the category promoters. Next thing you will want them to do up the dunnies at Oran Park, access to QR, and put in a swimming pool at Hidden Valley!!!
 
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 07:15 (Ref:940114)   #67
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I would have thought that camp amenities were the responsibility of the track owners, not the category promoters. Next thing you will want them to do up the dunnies at Oran Park, access to QR, and put in a swimming pool at Hidden Valley!!!
If the facilitys are so bad why camp? I mean it is a once a year thing and people always complain that the camping is shocking,How does the camping compare to the Sandown 500 facilitys? or any other track for that matter,yes I accept that it isn't the best but hey if you choose to "enjoy" a race in a particular way then embrace it.All to often people hark back to the "good old days" but seem reluctant to fully experience it
Imagine the uproar if they fully revamped the camping area and then whacked up the fee's to match.I would have thought that given PROCAR use the track the most they should be the ones responsible for the upgrades,after all they are on the track at least 3 times as long and require more officials.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 13:09 (Ref:940436)   #68
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SNIPI would have thought that given PROCAR use the track the most they should be the ones responsible for the upgrades,after all they are on the track at least 3 times as long and require more officials.
Ahem, it certainly wasn't PROCAR who *****ed about the state of the pits and corporate facilities, hinting that the V8s would stay away if things weren't improved. That little dummy split has cost NSW taxpayers and the local council big bucks, some of which just might have gone into reasonable upgrades to camping facilities.

Also, last look of the maps showed Mount Panorama a little bit further out of town than Sandown, so that comparison is a bit of a dud too.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 13:27 (Ref:940458)   #69
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Ahem, it certainly wasn't PROCAR who *****ed about the state of the pits and corporate facilities, hinting that the V8s would stay away if things weren't improved. That little dummy split has cost NSW taxpayers and the local council big bucks, some of which just might have gone into reasonable upgrades to camping facilities.

Also, last look of the maps showed Mount Panorama a little bit further out of town than Sandown, so that comparison is a bit of a dud too.
As most of us know Big guy TC jumps up & down expecting every one else to put money in for upgrades so he can make even more money....He really beered me off with his dummy split at Bathurst..what a ****.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 13:57 (Ref:940486)   #70
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Who Cares!!

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Originally posted by White Knight
I would have thought that camp amenities were the responsibility of the track owners, not the category promoters. Next thing you will want them to do up the dunnies at Oran Park, access to QR, and put in a swimming pool at Hidden Valley!!!
Naaah, all too hard.....although Bazza did get the dunnies fixed at Barbagello!

Its all about the power of persuasion, if the people in their ivory towers stepped down once in a while to see the squalour that is the Officials camping area and facilities maybe we would miraculously get some action (DGMW, I am mighty grateful for the provision of the campsites..)
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 14:04 (Ref:940493)   #71
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Originally posted by White Knight
I would have thought that camp amenities were the responsibility of the track owners, not the category promoters. Next thing you will want them to do up the dunnies at Oran Park, access to QR, and put in a swimming pool at Hidden Valley!!!
Considering Cochrane credited himself/AVESCO with Hidden Valley, QR, Wanneroo and Oran Park pits etc..etc.. and he will no doubt credit himself with the new Bathurst pits despite not contributing a dime........

But, in many ways i do agree with you. In a normal world it should be up to the people that own the track to do that kind of work.

Regarding the camping facilities, they have been exactly the same for decades, and really is unlikely to change, but i doubt many people are going to stop camping there.
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Old 15 Apr 2004, 23:04 (Ref:941005)   #72
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Also, last look of the maps showed Mount Panorama a little bit further out of town than Sandown, so that comparison is a bit of a dud too.
But there are more motels within 10 km of the track than at Sandown isn't there?
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Old 16 Apr 2004, 03:18 (Ref:941100)   #73
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Not necessarily stick up for TC here, but for a long time some permenant track facilities havn't been very good, the V8's have gone to these circuits and made the money from the largest drawcard in Aussie motor racing, this of course has generally been plowed back into the circuit which benefits the local racers.

Along comes TC, spends a few years boosting the profile of the V8's (remembering it has to compete with other sports for sponsor $ and our $), then demands that circuit facilities be improved for both spectators and competitors, I can't see a problem with that.

Why should AVESCO pay for the upgrades? there job is to market V8's which they have so far done succesfully. You wouldn't expect the Rolling Stones to pay for upgrades to the Sydney Opera House if they played there.

In the end its all busines now, businesmen now own some of the circuits, they are there to make money from it one would presume, If AVESCO were to pump money into circuit upgrades, then you would have to expect them to be repaid with some sort of profit share.
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Old 16 Apr 2004, 05:00 (Ref:941126)   #74
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And what would be wrong with that, Kieron?

AVESCO chips in to help pay for upgrades, they take a share of the profit from ALL meetings held at the track.... i don't see a downside, UNLESS the prices to use the circuit skyrocket as a result of an AVESCO cash injection.

This way, Cochrane gets the facilities he wants, and the circuits don't have to go nearly broke tring to bend over backwards to please AVESCO, and being seen by some of their regular/local users as pandering to the V8s at the expense of everyone else.

Of course, this assumes that Cochrane would allow other classes to use "his" tracks at a reasonable cost.
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Old 16 Apr 2004, 05:51 (Ref:941134)   #75
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Its pure and simple really, the circuit owners pay AVESCO to have V8s at their track, so it should be the circuits that have to ensure that amenities are up to scratch. The F1 circus don't pay for upgrades to Albert Park. If they were not happy they would simply go elsewhere.
 
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