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Old 26 Nov 2011, 18:56 (Ref:2991664)   #1
Frosty11
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Careers that declined or could have had more titles?

I can think of Damon Hill as an example as he must have had brain fade when he decided to join Arrows after rejecting McLaren and Ferrari. Had he stayed with Williams he probably would have won another title.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 19:12 (Ref:2991670)   #2
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In some ways Damon Hill was fortunate to get one title, considering he didn't race an F1 car 'til he was 31. I'd nominate Raikkonen as someone who perhaps got fewer titles than his talent merited. It could go the same way for Hamilton, but I hope not.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 19:14 (Ref:2991671)   #3
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Hakkinen might have won more. There's people like Dan Gurney and Jackie Stewart.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 19:15 (Ref:2991672)   #4
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Didn't know Damon Hill was that age when he first drove an F1 car. In the same way as Hill, Raikkonen did miss out on the title a couple of times but I think Raikkonen won it very fortunately. Schumacher could possibly have had 8 maybe even 9 titles.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 19:24 (Ref:2991677)   #5
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In the same way as Hill, Raikkonen did miss out on the title a couple of times but I think Raikkonen won it very fortunately.
He was fortunate in the sense that the McLaren drivers took points off each other, but ultimately he won more Grands Prix that year than any of his competitors, so was an entirely worthy champion.

Raikkonen was brilliant in 2005 and 2006 but didn't have the reliability of Alonso.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 19:26 (Ref:2991678)   #6
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Hakkinen might have won more. There's people like Dan Gurney and Jackie Stewart.
True. If we're talking drivers who never won the title, then surely Stirling Moss is surely the ultimate. As Nigel Roebuck says, the fact that Stirling Moss never became champion casts a shadow over the championship more than it does him.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 20:51 (Ref:2991701)   #7
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Emerson Fittipaldi.

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Old 26 Nov 2011, 21:12 (Ref:2991709)   #8
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I think both Alan Jones and Keke Rosberg might have been more successful if they had stayed on at Williams. Jones was still very strong when he left at the end of 1981, had he stayed on for 1982 he might have taken the title(which Keke ended up getting).

Likewise with Keke. He and Nigel seemed to get on better - hell, certainly better than Piquet and Mansell! Not that I think he and Prost didn't get along, but Prost was very established in the McLaren team by then. Plus, he seemed more used to the Williams car. He could have been in the title hunt for 1986 and 1987.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 21:24 (Ref:2991713)   #9
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Good thread, similar to the old chestnut that gets revived now and again 'drivers who never fulfilled their potential'

I don't agree Kimi was mega in 2006 as he was largely unnoticeable that year as the car was pants but he was on ot from 02-05 that's for sure. The Kimi JPM combo never really worked either, as both drivers were extremely headstrong drivers, 'their own man' and not the best team players imo.... Both would've benefitted from a DC type guy in the other car and things would've been very different.

Kimi is definitely a driver who had at least 3 titles in him if the cards (cars?) had fallen right and for longer.

The biggest example of careers that could've netted more is obviously Ayrton, buy we've all thrashed that one into the ground!

Off the top of my head I would put forward the likes of Pironi, maybe Gilles, Alboreto (who was very very good early on...) Alesi as candidates who could've won at least one title had circumstances been different.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 21:44 (Ref:2991718)   #10
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Can't agree at all with Damon Hill I'm afraid. He made the very most of the chance he got, allied to good but not exceptional talent. Also, the comment that he should have stayed with Williams is a red herring because Williams in fact fired him because they didn't think he was good enough - this followed on from 1995 where Williams had by far the best car but Hill couldn't get it done over Schumacher.

In terms of who coulda/shoulda;

Jacques Villeneuve
Emmerson Fittipaldi

Both took strange career decisions in the prime of their careers.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 21:47 (Ref:2991719)   #11
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Emerson Fittipaldi.

/thread
Extremely good shout.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 22:05 (Ref:2991723)   #12
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Chris Amon

Mario Andretti?
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 22:21 (Ref:2991727)   #13
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Nigel Mansell?
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 23:03 (Ref:2991734)   #14
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 23:12 (Ref:2991737)   #15
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Juan Montoya. Lots of talent, should have got the title in 2003.

F1 is worse off without him.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 23:14 (Ref:2991738)   #16
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A lot of drivers that almost got there, some of it was they might have been good, but just not THAT good. The common thread I see with multiple champions is consistency in their driving and motivation to win. A lot of these 1 time champions were in the right place at the right time.

Jacques Villeneuve he is an enigma. Indy 500 champion, 1995 CART Champion, 1996 F1 race winner, 1997 F1 WDC. And then absolutely nothing after that. I almost felt like he had a mission to fulfill for his father and that done, he was done. Strangely I never felt that anyone ever recognized that fact that Jacques finished the mission his father was on and put a proper and just conclusion on the Gilles Villeneuve story.

Chris Amon I think his problem was never being politically savvy enough to put himself in the right place at the right time with the right people. He essentially could never find the right recipe and then bake it properly.

Alan Jones was another that never really fulfilled his full potential and I think he got out the first time at the wrong time and then never found his rhythm again.

Damon Hill I think had the ability and I think going to Arrows was a big mistake. Since he had a lack of options, I think he should have done a Mansell and turned to CART in 1997.

I'm sure there is more I will think of later.
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 23:16 (Ref:2991740)   #17
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Juan Montoya. Lots of talent, should have got the title in 2003.

F1 is worse off without him.
Him quitting F1 and turning to Nascar is surely one of the most bizarre things that has ever happened.

Never got that one. Who quits one of the top teams in F1 to run 20th place in Nascar?
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Old 26 Nov 2011, 23:33 (Ref:2991747)   #18
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Hill perhaps should've had patience and taken a year out on the sidelines like Prost. General discomfort that the reigning WC wasn't on the grid would've done his reputation no harm at all. He was unlucky to be in this period though. It's hard to see him thriving at Benetton for example.
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 08:31 (Ref:2991837)   #19
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Thing is with Hill is that he never put any of his teammates away on speed and. I think he was lucky that DC was replaced with JV for 96 otherwise he prob wouldn't have got the title.
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 09:51 (Ref:2991860)   #20
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Thing is with Hill is that he never put any of his teammates away on speed and. I think he was lucky that DC was replaced with JV for 96 otherwise he prob wouldn't have got the title.
Hill could race/win in the wet something DC didnt ever seem capable of
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 10:38 (Ref:2991876)   #21
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Him quitting F1 and turning to Nascar is surely one of the most bizarre things that has ever happened.

Never got that one. Who quits one of the top teams in F1 to run 20th place in Nascar?
I don't get it either. Perhaps the appeal of burgers was hard to resist?
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 11:31 (Ref:2991892)   #22
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Hill, after being fired from Williams, almost had to go to Arrows as he was being offered a multi-million pound deal by Walkinshaw. Williams are notorious for underpaying their drivers and hence Hill felt that, with his age, he needed to make some serious money from F1. He was offered a seat at McLaren but the pay just wasn't enough for him.

People seem to forget that Damon was a half-reasonable driver who, although 31 when he entered F1, won three races in his debut season and was comfortably beating Prost in at least four more when his engine failed (or he suffered other mechanical problems).

In terms of not fulfilling potential; Jan Magnussen was mega in everything until he reached McLaren and then was distinctly average.
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 11:36 (Ref:2991894)   #23
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Thing is with Hill is that he never put any of his teammates away on speed and. I think he was lucky that DC was replaced with JV for 96 otherwise he prob wouldn't have got the title.
1996 was DC's year?
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 12:30 (Ref:2991909)   #24
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1996 was DC's year?
no he made to many mistakes, a good number 2 like his side kick mr Brundle
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Old 27 Nov 2011, 12:56 (Ref:2991918)   #25
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Didnt Hill pretty have to leave becuase Frentzen was already signed for 97? That was the main crux of it.

Arrows was not a bad move, just I think promises were made and not delivered, This was Walkinshaw remember and i never, ever trusted that man with any team, no matter who it was I am afraid.
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