Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: FlagMarshal.com MarshalsGuide.com Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Racing Talk > Marshals Forum

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12 Oct 2009, 13:06 (Ref:2559758)   #1
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,065
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Blocking or Weaving

A question mainly I suppose for the observers on here. In my race at Mallory yesterday I noticed a couple of guys were quite enthusiastic about keeping people behind them to the point that they were actually weaving in front of the the faster following car. This happened to me on a couple of occasions and I witnessed one guy weaving in front of another car we were racing.
To me, moving over and changing line to protect a corner is reasonable but to come out of the Devils Elbow and move to the right to block then move left and right again seems a bit unreasonable and possibly dangerous.

So following on from the "Drivers on Post" thread what's the general consensus from marshals and observers on blocking or weaving? I did mention it to one of the drivers concerned but he seemed to think it was OK and the norm so am I being too old and gentlemanly or is he wrong and would it be reported if noticed?
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 13:26 (Ref:2559784)   #2
Nighthawk
Veteran
 
Nighthawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
United Kingdom
Swindon, Wiltshire
Posts: 1,393
Nighthawk has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Blocking , Yes I would report it if I witness it but.....!!!
It’s the sort of think that unless it’s blatantly obvious is very difficult to differentiate between a legal move and foul play also very difficult to prove in a appeal....
Nighthawk is offline  
__________________
HE WHO DARES-WINS !!!
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 13:35 (Ref:2559794)   #3
kimbo
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
England
West Sussex
Posts: 69
kimbo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
As a marshal, I am a trainee, so I guess more experienced people will be along to express the 'official' view.
On a personal level, I would have thought that the 'one change of direction' rule, which now seems to have become accepted as the norm, would apply, i.e. having moved to cover one side of the track, you then cannot move to the other side to block, until taking your line for the next corner. I think.
I hate the blocking tactics which seem to be in widespread use today. If you mess up a corner, by all means 'go defensive', but dont then move again to intimidate or block if the following driver starts to overlap. Same when a faster car comes up behind.
I once made myself very unpopular by stating my views on this type of driving at a kart race meeting in which my son was taking part (although he was not involved in the particular race). I was told that I was all kinds of an idiot and that 'defending' was an integral part of racecraft. I say defending yes, weaving no!

Kim.

Last edited by Stephen Green; 13 Oct 2009 at 15:33.
kimbo is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 13:39 (Ref:2559796)   #4
The Fat Clerk
Veteran
 
The Fat Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
England
Mallory Park
Posts: 3,357
The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wa on the Esses yesterday as a Marshal and witnessed what you're talking about. On 2 consecutive laps the a car 'blocked' his pursuer into the Hirpin, I was about to phone it in, when on the next lap they had swapped places and the erstwhile pursuer shot off into the distance. With my 'Clerks' hat on I'd allow you one move, after that you'd get the driver warning flag and after that you'd be talking to me.
As I driver I do it as much as I can get away with
The Fat Clerk is offline  
__________________
Comments made are personal and dont reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy.
Don't believe all you read on the Internet - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616).
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 13:53 (Ref:2559815)   #5
Steven Humphrey
Veteran
 
Steven Humphrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
England
cambridgeshire
Posts: 1,425
Steven Humphrey should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSteven Humphrey should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I know they're very strict on 'blocking' in the US and have seen good battles end because a dubious penalty has been dished out. It shouldn't be easy to overtake, just because you have a slightly faster car but any move that is dangerous should be reported, in my opinion. Blatant weaving=bad. Clever defensive driving=good!
Steven Humphrey is offline  
__________________
I used to be with it, until they changed what it is. Now what I'm with is no longer it.
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 14:14 (Ref:2559829)   #6
Bodysnatcher
La Grande Théière
Veteran
 
Bodysnatcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Marshall Islands
5 minutes from the kentagon
Posts: 2,415
Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!Bodysnatcher has a real shot at the podium!
Exactly what Blackhawk says

plus
factor in a Clerk of the Course who either
may not give two hoots about it
or has a bee in his bonnet about it

Again a live messaging net would allow rolling commentary to & from Observers/Race control.
Bodysnatcher is offline  
__________________
Alasdair
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 15:04 (Ref:2559870)   #7
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,065
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnage arnie View Post
It shouldn't be easy to overtake, just because you have a slightly faster car but any move that is dangerous should be reported, in my opinion. Blatant weaving=bad. Clever defensive driving=good!
I have no problem with moving over to defend a corner, I do it and fully expect it to be done to me. But moving over and then changing line again forcing someone to suddenly back off or take to the grass isn't right or safe surely?
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 15:07 (Ref:2559875)   #8
The Fat Clerk
Veteran
 
The Fat Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
England
Mallory Park
Posts: 3,357
The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Correct answer, unless you're in BTCC of course!

Last edited by Stephen Green; 13 Oct 2009 at 15:34.
The Fat Clerk is offline  
__________________
Comments made are personal and dont reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy.
Don't believe all you read on the Internet - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616).
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 15:08 (Ref:2559876)   #9
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,065
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk View Post
I wa on the Esses yesterday as a Marshal
Off topic but in race 4 do you know how the guy in the Ginetta managed to have an accident under yellows by the scene of the original incident?
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 15:20 (Ref:2559890)   #10
diz
Veteran
 
diz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
England
Cheshire
Posts: 3,843
diz should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Seems to make the Raceiver they use in Legends make even more sense.
Every driver has an earpiece and all he can hear is Race Control. It's a receive only system.

Every driver hears the broadcast.
Such useful things as:
1. Big oil spill right hand side of track in The Esses - advance warning
2. No.27 stop corner cutting - 27 knows he is being naughty and so do all the other drivers.
3. No 22 10 second penalty - he and everybody else knows.
4. Safety Car being scrambled. Car(s) in dangerous position apex of Old Hall
5. Car 42 overtake the Safety Car, or Car 96 catch up with the train of cars ahead
etc., etc.,
And in the case of this thread, Car whoever, stop annoying [sorry blocking] Timbo.
diz is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Oct 2009, 15:31 (Ref:2559903)   #11
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,065
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by diz View Post
And in the case of this thread, Car whoever, stop annoying [sorry blocking] Timbo.
Don't get me wrong, it only happened to me twice and on one of those occasions I didn't have the speed or power to do anything about it anyway but I did notice it being done to other drivers as well which is what promoted the thread.
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2009, 14:10 (Ref:2560582)   #12
The Fat Clerk
Veteran
 
The Fat Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
England
Mallory Park
Posts: 3,357
The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Falce View Post
Off topic but in race 4 do you know how the guy in the Ginetta managed to have an accident under yellows by the scene of the original incident?
Yes, even though he'd already passed the incident 3 times (waved yellow flags, Marshals on the track etc) he came through at full speed out of shape through the Esses, put a wheel on the grass and his car in the barriers.
I was the first person to him, he was speaking incohentrly and drifting in and out of consciouness.
The Fat Clerk is offline  
__________________
Comments made are personal and dont reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy.
Don't believe all you read on the Internet - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616).
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2009, 14:33 (Ref:2560597)   #13
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 11,065
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Thanks to you and everyone who looked after him. I've heard that he may be out of hospital tomorrow, apparently he has a broken collar bone and a couple of cracked vertebrae.
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2009, 14:34 (Ref:2560599)   #14
The Fat Clerk
Veteran
 
The Fat Clerk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
England
Mallory Park
Posts: 3,357
The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Lucky lad, it really was a heavy shunt.
The Fat Clerk is offline  
__________________
Comments made are personal and dont reflect any club or Motorsport UK policy.
Don't believe all you read on the Internet - William Shakespeare (1564 - 1616).
Quote
Old 13 Oct 2009, 15:29 (Ref:2560628)   #15
Clive Brown
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
North-west Kent
Posts: 1,393
Clive Brown should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fat Clerk View Post
Yes, even though he'd already passed the incident 3 times (waved yellow flags, Marshals on the track etc) he came through at full speed out of shape through the Esses, put a wheel on the grass and his car in the barriers.
I was the first person to him, he was speaking incohentrly and drifting in and out of consciouness.
If he was driving as described, I doubt if he could speak coherently or was ever really fully concious anyway. This is just the sort of s**t driving that should be punished by a lengthy ban, imposed on the day by the Clerk-of-the-Course, pour encourager les aȗtres.

In the interests of justice, there must be a right of appeal to the RACSMA, with the appeal to be convened expeditiously. Appellant to be allowed to race pending appeal, but all points and prize money (and, of course, the Appeal fee plus costs) to be forfeited should the Tribunal find against the appellant.

It won't ever happen, of course, because the gutless t*ssers at RACSMA would be so sh*t-scared of one of the young psychopaths who run in the single-seat ladder formulae, or the rich old b*stards who have so ruined historic racing by their cheating and dirty driving, turning up at the appeal proceedings with a Silk, that they wouldn't countenance introducing such a procedure. If they did, it is likely that they would, through lack of moral courage, persistently undercut the contemporaneous decisions of Clerks-of-the-Course, who in turn would undercut their observers and marshals, and before very long, no-one would really bother reporting this sort of thing any more (a bit like at present, in fact).

I watched, and latterly participated in, circuit racing from the late sixties to the late eighties, and viewed with increasing disgust the steady decline in driving standards in the various one-make series, Production Saloons, Formula Ford, Formula First, and best/worst of all, the BTCC; yet what I viewed then with utter contempt is but a mere bagatelle compared with what is to be seen at virtually every meeting these days.

I recognise that this post has become a rant, but I don't see it as being in any way off-topic, and I look forward to receiving opposing views from other perspectives.
Clive Brown is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blocking... what is it? hgmonaro Australasian Touring Cars. 13 13 Dec 2006 23:33
Blocking McKay Racers Forum 46 21 Apr 2006 15:59
It's not me weaving, it's the track! graeme Racers Forum 5 3 Apr 2006 17:55
Blocking? Who? Me? Neil C ChampCar World Series 23 18 May 2003 02:41
Blocking ? Billy_Hunt Formula One 8 7 Oct 2000 23:51


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:10.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.