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Old 14 Sep 2020, 16:52 (Ref:4002477)   #181
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steve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsteve_r should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Or just let the pace car leave the track about half a lap before the start / finish line, and then the lead driver can string the cars out well before start/finish.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 16:54 (Ref:4002478)   #182
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Wouldn't make any difference since the reason for the slow lappery was because of the long straight to the first corner and the possibility of being overtaken due to the draft. Hence Bottas left his run as late as possible and it worked.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 17:25 (Ref:4002483)   #183
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Or just leave it as it is and tell the best drivers in the world to start being at least as competent as GTE-Am Drivers in ELMS.

Just a thought.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 17:43 (Ref:4002485)   #184
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Indeed.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 17:43 (Ref:4002486)   #185
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Or just leave it as it is and tell the best drivers in the world to start being at least as competent as GTE-Am Drivers in ELMS.

Just a thought.


Serious question. I know teams use simulators to evaluate and practice things. I can imagine drivers using simulators to build muscle memory for things like start procedures, start light reaction time training, clutch release, etc. Why do they not have them practice things like these?

Richard
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 18:15 (Ref:4002489)   #186
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I agree leave things as they are, it's not like there is an issue everytime there is a restart behind the SC. There were two restarts at Mid-Ohio yesterday, both incident free. I'm not too sure about double file restarts. IndyCar reintroduced them for the 2011 season, on all tracks but they proved very problematic. They where eventually dropped from road/street courses and the 500 in 2014 and now they don't use them at all.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 18:42 (Ref:4002491)   #187
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Serious question. I know teams use simulators to evaluate and practice things. I can imagine drivers using simulators to build muscle memory for things like start procedures, start light reaction time training, clutch release, etc. Why do they not have them practice things like these?

Richard
I imagine they do, but the way it happened is that 1 driver got it wrong, and everyone else reacted to them. So I guess they did follow their practicing? Maybe?

I _think_ what happened was Kvyat went too early, which then caused everyone else. Since you can only react to the car in front (you can't see further than that) you have to trust that they did the right thing.

But certainly cars around Kvyat and Russell, relatively far up the field, caused the incident. Cars like Latifi, Gio and Sainz can only react to the cars in front and accelerated.

However, I do feel like a lot of cars were hanging back too far. Kimi and Vettel were a good 100m or so back. That's absolutely not ok.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 18:47 (Ref:4002493)   #188
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With hindsight Kimi and Seb did the right thing, maybe that’s a sign of their experience. Holding back in case something goes wrong as it did there
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 19:00 (Ref:4002495)   #189
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I _think_ what happened was Kvyat went too early, which then caused everyone else. Since you can only react to the car in front (you can't see further than that) you have to trust that they did the right thing.
There needs to be some level of trust, but they also have to give up something to allow for contingencies in a relatively risky situation. Such as maybe don't try to accelerate while directly in the draft (limiting your vision to just one car in front of you). Pull out a bit to watch a few cars ahead, even if that might compromise you a bit. You still can't pass prior to the start finish.

As to the simulation training. I expect a good simulator would include variable levels of "bad" behavior of the other drivers. If you have the simulator setup so that everyone else does the "right" thing nothing bad will happen. It's best to have the field accordion in front of you to teach you to develop strategies to both watch for it and learn to deal with it when it happens.

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Old 14 Sep 2020, 19:03 (Ref:4002496)   #190
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Just for the record: I was not being serious about double-file restarts and acceleration zones.
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Old 14 Sep 2020, 23:51 (Ref:4002523)   #191
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Or just leave it as it is and tell the best drivers in the world to start being at least as competent as GTE-Am Drivers in ELMS.

Just a thought.
Or your average club racer!
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 03:24 (Ref:4002532)   #192
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sizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridsizzle should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Or just leave it as it is and tell the best drivers in the world to start being at least as competent as GTE-Am Drivers in ELMS.

Just a thought.
Or just like the kids in F3!
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 08:14 (Ref:4002547)   #193
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Lola should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Restart like they do in IMSA or Indy. Not even the leader goes before the green flag is shown
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 09:26 (Ref:4002555)   #194
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I imagine they do, but the way it happened is that 1 driver got it wrong, and everyone else reacted to them. So I guess they did follow their practicing? Maybe?

I _think_ what happened was Kvyat went too early, which then caused everyone else. Since you can only react to the car in front (you can't see further than that) you have to trust that they did the right thing.

But certainly cars around Kvyat and Russell, relatively far up the field, caused the incident. Cars like Latifi, Gio and Sainz can only react to the cars in front and accelerated.

However, I do feel like a lot of cars were hanging back too far. Kimi and Vettel were a good 100m or so back. That's absolutely not ok.
similarly to what you suggested earlier in the thread, radio 5/the bbc website were determined that it was russell who went first. which really just shows how hard it is to place blame, and they were ultimately correct to read half the field the riot act rather than specifically have a go at one or two drivers. going at that particular point was probably a lot closer to a non-baku restart, so it's not that far fetched. unfortunately the further back you get in the field, the faster they're going to turn up at the scene of the accident assuming everyone else is leaving a similar gap between cars.

the same thing happens in a road accident on a busy road - one person has to react at the last minute because they weren't paying attention or were unsighted, which cascades backwards getting closer and closer to the point where somebody can't react in time and goes into the back of someone else. then all hell breaks loose until there's a big enough gap to break the chain.

but it goes without saying that they shouldn't need specific rules for restarts. they're all grown ups, not 12 year olds in karts.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 11:58 (Ref:4002582)   #195
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I reckon a partial cause of the pile up was drivers weaving right up until the crashing started.

Here in Australia Supercars banned weaving after the Safety Car goes lights out after some restart incidents a few years ago which has filtered down to the lower classes, as a result and we haven't seen any major problems until they get to a corner since.

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=155504


As it was occurring in all the classes over the weekend I've created a separate thread to discuss further.
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