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Old 15 Sep 2020, 11:47 (Ref:4002580)   #1
PVDA
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Weaving once Safety Car "bugs out"

Under the Supercars series rules here in Australia once the Safety Car goes "Lights Out" weaving is banned, as a result this has also filtered down to all the lower classes as well.

Watching the racing from the Tuscan GP meeting I note cars weaving right up until the leader takes off.

I believe Bottas and others weaving was a partial cause of the pile up on the Safety Car restart that resulted in the big pile up.

Your thoughts ??

Should the FIA follow the Supercars by bringing in a No Weaving rule ??
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 12:46 (Ref:4002593)   #2
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Originally Posted by PVDA View Post
Under the Supercars series rules here in Australia once the Safety Car goes "Lights Out" weaving is banned, as a result this has also filtered down to all the lower classes as well.

Watching the racing from the Tuscan GP meeting I note cars weaving right up until the leader takes off.

I believe Bottas and others weaving was a partial cause of the pile up on the Safety Car restart that resulted in the big pile up.

Your thoughts ??

Should the FIA follow the Supercars by bringing in a No Weaving rule ??
Personally, and happy to be convinced otherwise, I don't see how weaving contributes to the problem?

If the driver behind doesn't 'go' until the car in front has, what difference does it make if the driver in front is weaving or driving in a straight line?
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 13:34 (Ref:4002596)   #3
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I cant see that weaving caused the issue at the last race. We were discussing this on the race thread. The drivers are pointing to the lateness of the safety car switching its lights out, which meant that the lead driver was always going to be inclined to wait until the last moment to start again - which caused the bunching and accident.

If the quotes in the press are true, the race organisers seem to be mightily offended at the mere the hint that they might have contributed to this accident in some way, and instead attribute the blame to 12 drivers.

My view is that if over half the drivers are supposedly at fault, then the race organisers have created something wrong.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 14:01 (Ref:4002603)   #4
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I cant see that weaving caused the issue at the last race. We were discussing this on the race thread. The drivers are pointing to the lateness of the safety car switching its lights out, which meant that the lead driver was always going to be inclined to wait until the last moment to start again - which caused the bunching and accident.

If the quotes in the press are true, the race organisers seem to be mightily offended at the mere the hint that they might have contributed to this accident in some way, and instead attribute the blame to 12 drivers.

My view is that if over half the drivers are supposedly at fault, then the race organisers have created something wrong.
Were the lights late in going out, or was it where they should have been extinguished, but the circuit layout, and to a degree unfamiliarity of it by the teams and drivers leading them to think that?

The circuit layout was always likely to lead to a bunched restart, given the slipstreaming potential, but was it necessary for the continued weaving by the leader at that point, it surely wouldn't be a heat issue, rather gamesmanship in picking the moment that the he opted to "go".

It appeared that more than just the light panel on or after the line went green, that in fact panels nearer the final corner went green, resulting in drivers at the back rightly believing that they were no longer under Yellow flag/Safety car constraints, which in turn expecting those in front to be accelerating and not still bunching, did so to create an overall but not to overtake before the line as per regulations.

What the solution actually is I don't know, but to quickly come out with statements saying they won't be looking at the restart procedures is wrong.

Like any accident or incident, it should be reviewed and lessons learnt.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 14:22 (Ref:4002606)   #5
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Short answer is "no" in my opinion. I just don't see it as a big factor. My only comment is that some of Bottas' last minute weaving put him particularly close to Hamilton. Or maybe Hamilton was particularly close to Bottas while he was weaving!

Hopefully this thread doesn't just rehash the lap 6 F1 situation as that was already extensively discussed in the race thread.

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The circuit layout was always likely to lead to a bunched restart, given the slipstreaming potential, but was it necessary for the continued weaving by the leader at that point, it surely wouldn't be a heat issue, rather gamesmanship in picking the moment that the he opted to "go".
(weaving as a way to pick the right moment to go)

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Like any accident or incident, it should be reviewed and lessons learnt.
Agree

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Old 15 Sep 2020, 15:02 (Ref:4002612)   #6
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one thing im not sure i have heard mentioned is the placement of the S/C restart line.

with the late pit entry where it is, it is always going to be a relatively small length of track between where the S/C has to come into the pits and the start/finish line combined with an slight elevation change that made it harder for those at the back to see further ahead.

so could the restart line be moved closer to turn 1?
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 15:21 (Ref:4002613)   #7
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The SC restart line is the start/finish/timing line.

It used to be that an earlier mark was used and , that allowed overtaking before the s/f line, but that in itself caused issues.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 15:37 (Ref:4002617)   #8
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Just throwing this one out there, but how about moving the line to just before Turn 1? Drivers could then set up a move in the next few corners. You may get some do or die or moves in Turn 1, though, but no more than on Lap 1.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 23:30 (Ref:4002713)   #9
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I've never understood the no overtaking until the control line rule. Make them form up line astern, maintain SC speed once it's gone, switch on the green and go racing. Don't care where the line is, it's green. Get on with it.
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Old 15 Sep 2020, 23:42 (Ref:4002714)   #10
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Weaving once Safety Car "bugs out"

I remember they had the line just before the pit entrance when you could start to overtake. They for some reason got rid of that a few years ago. It no doubt would have prevented an incident last weekend had it still been in place. Idk if they would bring it back now though?
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Old 16 Sep 2020, 03:22 (Ref:4002724)   #11
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Originally Posted by PVDA View Post
Under the Supercars series rules here in Australia once the Safety Car goes "Lights Out" weaving is banned, as a result this has also filtered down to all the lower classes as well.



Watching the racing from the Tuscan GP meeting I note cars weaving right up until the leader takes off.



I believe Bottas and others weaving was a partial cause of the pile up on the Safety Car restart that resulted in the big pile up.



Your thoughts ??



Should the FIA follow the Supercars by bringing in a No Weaving rule ??
Pure and simple no, and weaving had zero to do with any of it and making the argument it did means you aren't the best drivers so quit now and we can get competent drivers in the seats. Banning things because drivers are incompetent is pathetic and the fastest way to get people to turn off the race. If the drivers can't be adults and pay attention, the frankly let them wreck and explain to the team why the car in front of them wasn't a clue to not drive RIGHT THERE and why all their effort was wasted.
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Old 16 Sep 2020, 03:36 (Ref:4002725)   #12
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I've never understood the no overtaking until the control line rule. Make them form up line astern, maintain SC speed once it's gone, switch on the green and go racing. Don't care where the line is, it's green. Get on with it.
I must admit this is my view too.... in a grid start some guys at the rear get away better than those in front and pass before the start finish line without issue, and I see no issue with a restart being the same rules. It would be a little less open to scenarios such as Mugello where the options of when to restart were too grey due to the long straight with a late start line. Usually the leading driver is at full noise coming off the last corner, but this was not the case at Mugello.
Just make it a simple line up, and go at point X and go. No options to confuse people. If you gain a spot before the line so be it.
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Old 16 Sep 2020, 19:46 (Ref:4002858)   #13
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When it's green, it's full throttle. Otherwise, chaos ensues.


IndyCar uses a restart zone. The race leader must go full throttle inside that zone, not earlier or later.
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Old 17 Sep 2020, 02:27 (Ref:4002910)   #14
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The funny thing about this is the Michael Masi is ex Supercars and he banned it there but not in F1! Very contradictory indeed.
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Old 17 Sep 2020, 02:47 (Ref:4002912)   #15
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Are they double file restarts?
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