Future Grands Prix?

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Originally Posted by Mike E

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/...-2014030684354

At first I read the website link as "Daily Mail."

CVC=Morgoth
Bernie=Sauron
Jean Todt=Saruman
FIA=Isengard
Teams=Kingdoms of Men
Sponsors=Elves: Leaving the world of F1 for a better place.

[aki13]

Its about time F1 got into more countries with a serious motorsport heritage. We all remember the legendary Azerbaijani racing drivers.

Seriously though, its no slight on Azerbaijani people but I would imagine hardly anyone would turn up.

Whats the long term point? Even if you get a few years of big bucks it will all falter after a few seasons.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by aki13

Its about time F1 got into more countries with a serious motorsport heritage. We all remember the legendary Azerbaijani racing drivers.

Seriously though, its no slight on Azerbaijani people but I would imagine hardly anyone would turn up.

Whats the long term point? Even if you get a few years of big bucks it will all falter after a few seasons.

It will be another Turkey.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It will be another Turkey.

Literally......

[aki13]

Exactly. Turkey was the only decent Tilke Drome but no one ever turned up.

[chunterer]

There was some more bumph about Long Beach in Joe Saward's blog earlier in the week. Chris Pook seems pretty determined to convince local government and US enterprise and the public that this race adds up!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chunterer

There was some more bumph about Long Beach in Joe Saward's blog earlier in the week. Chris Pook seems pretty determined to convince local government and US enterprise and the public that this race adds up!

Nothing's been heard from Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe, who both own the LBGP, regarding an F1 GP.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Nothing's been heard from Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe, who both own the LBGP, regarding an F1 GP.

I suspect that Bernie has been talking up the prospects of an LBGP for some of his usual reasons. Which GP is he trying to get more money out of now?

[brico]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I suspect that Bernie is letting out the stories about a GP in Azerbaijan and/or Long Beach are being used as pawns. The idea is to get more money from the German GP organisers by saying he has que of possible replacements. However he will have to be careful how deals with the German's as he has a little court case coming up and it could end up biteing him some where sore.

I've heard similiar stories regarding the New Jersey and Montreal Grands Prix. We attended the Montreal race in 2013 and learned soon afterwords that the Montreal race promoters agreement with Bernie is up for renewal after the 2014 race. Geographically the races are located 10 hours (by car) appart, which in the US is a manageable drive - so they'd be courting the (somewhat) same attendance group.

Dangling NJ as a possibility in 2015 will definitiely put the contract renewal negotiations with Montreal in Bernie's favor (which went bandly in late 2008 and led to the cancellation of the Montreal race in 2009). If that were to occur again and the race went to NJ, Montreal may not be able to get it back the following year, if ever.

Obviously it's all posturing for everyone involved - as I quietly wait patiently for the dust to settle.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by brico

Dangling NJ as a possibility in 2015 will definitiely put the contract renewal negotiations with Montreal in Bernie's favor (which went bandly in late 2008 and led to the cancellation of the Montreal race in 2009). If that were to occur again and the race went to NJ, Montreal may not be able to get it back the following year, if ever.

New Jersey is and has been nothing but a pipe dream, and a vanity project for some wanabees who salivate at the thought of glowing in the F1 fanlights.

According to views far more in touch than I, there is the little matter of the $400-600 million that the NJ "promotors" need to raise in order to put the race on, and even after around two years, nobody looks likely to come forward with that sort of money.

In addition to that, since the proposals were first released, the site has, I believe, been altered and where the pits were to be placed has now had a multi-story building built and possibly already let. Also, most of the permanent roads are now in place, and they would not meet the technical/safety requirements of the FIA, plus they would, again I believe, have to build an extra bridge to make the track work.

If this race ever got off the ground and actually took place, I'll eat my hat. A real waste of money because I will have to go out to buy one first!

[stripedcat]

Interesting that Long Beach is back in the frame as a possible future US race. Dare I say that if F1 had actually never left there, it would have had a much bigger presence in the USA. The circuit itself isn't bad - there is I suppose one decent overtaking point(even allowing for the dreaded DRS) - on the curved start/finish straight. Maybe even into turn 9 - you might be able to. As street circuit go - it's probably one of the better ones, and at least has some motorsport heritage.

How long before Bernie takes a pop at Silverstone again? You know the thing : "Poor facilities, etc.". What he means is - he doesn't own it! Realistically, it probably the only place in the UK that can host an F1 race - even if the track is a bit too technical and lost some of its edge nowadays.

I suppose that it's good that Austria is back - as it is nice to see a race back in Europe. Just a shame, that the A1 Ring isn't the most exciting racetrack.

What races do you think might be dropped in the future? I know there were hints that Melbourne might go - as they couldn't afford Bernie's fees - but it looks unlikely now that Riccardio is at Red Bull.

I suspect that we might see some more tracks in the Far East -as Bernie wants to "follow the money".

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

New Jersey is and has been nothing but a pipe dream, and a vanity project for some wanabees who salivate at the thought of glowing in the F1 fanlights.

According to views far more in touch than I, there is the little matter of the $400-600 million that the NJ "promotors" need to raise in order to put the race on, and even after around two years, nobody looks likely to come forward with that sort of money.

In addition to that, since the proposals were first released, the site has, I believe, been altered and where the pits were to be placed has now had a multi-story building built and possibly already let. Also, most of the permanent roads are now in place, and they would not meet the technical/safety requirements of the FIA, plus they would, again I believe, have to build an extra bridge to make the track work.

If this race ever got off the ground and actually took place, I'll eat my hat. A real waste of money because I will have to go out to buy one first!

The biggest pipe dreamer of them all was/is Bernie. A GP was originally proposed to run in the NYC area at Meadowlands, NJ, with Manhatten as the backdrop but just like the current proposed GP, which keeps on being cancelled, this was too and CART held their own race there in '84.

In 2010 Bernie again announced plans for a race but this time at Liberty State Park, NJ but this fell through as did an alternative site, Floyd Bennett Field on Staten Island, NYC. Then in 2011, as we all know Port Imperial, Weehawken, NJ was chosen and it's been constantly cancelled.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

The biggest pipe dreamer of them all was/is Bernie.

I don't really agree with you, I'm afraid. I grant you that Ecclestone has always wanted to have a race on the northern parts of the East Coast, he knows that, from a financial point of view, it makes sense to have a race in a city centre.This is why, IMHO, the races in Turkey, Korea, India and even Malaysia have been economical disasters; they are held in virtual wildernesses.

The exception that proves the rule is Suzuka which is comparatively in the middle of no-where (pretty well an eight hour drive from Tokyo), but it is packed because the Japanese are fanatical about motor-racing, especially F1 if a Japanese driver is on the grid; however, they are equally passionate about all the other drivers, and when I was last there, the viewing places were about 60-70% full on the Friday, and thousands of them stay on after the race finished to watch the whole race again on the giant TV screens.

Mr E may not be to everyones' taste, but, I firmly believe, you have to admire him. He started with almost nothing, yet built up a very successful motor-bike business before becoming, I think, the UK importer for Toyota. As far as Formula 1 is concerned, I don't believe that we would have the thriving series that we do (I personally have fallen out of love of it, but that is only partly his fault) if it hadn't been for him and Mosely.

And I can't fathom what drives him, unless it is just the satisfaction of making deals. He can't be doing it for the money, because the reality is he has or controls more money than he could shake a stick at. His children and their offspring are, and will be, more than adequately cared for in a financial sense. The problem is that there are too many emerging countries which are prepared to through vast sums of money at FOM (or whatever it is called today; no doubt it will be re-named by tomorrow) so that they can consort with the beautiful people that follow the F1 circus around the world.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I don't really agree with you, I'm afraid. I grant you that Ecclestone has always wanted to have a race on the northern parts of the East Coast, he knows that, from a financial point of view, it makes sense to have a race in a city centre.This is why, IMHO, the races in Turkey, Korea, India and even Malaysia have been economical disasters; they are held in virtual wildernesses.

The exception that proves the rule is Suzuka which is comparatively in the middle of no-where (pretty well an eight hour drive from Tokyo), but it is packed because the Japanese are fanatical about motor-racing, especially F1 if a Japanese driver is on the grid; however, they are equally passionate about all the other drivers, and when I was last there, the viewing places were about 60-70% full on the Friday, and thousands of them stay on after the race finished to watch the whole race again on the giant TV screens.

Mr E may not be to everyones' taste, but, I firmly believe, you have to admire him. He started with almost nothing, yet built up a very successful motor-bike business before becoming, I think, the UK importer for Toyota. As far as Formula 1 is concerned, I don't believe that we would have the thriving series that we do (I personally have fallen out of love of it, but that is only partly his fault) if it hadn't been for him and Mosely.

And I can't fathom what drives him, unless it is just the satisfaction of making deals. He can't be doing it for the money, because the reality is he has or controls more money than he could shake a stick at. His children and their offspring are, and will be, more than adequately cared for in a financial sense. The problem is that there are too many emerging countries which are prepared to through vast sums of money at FOM (or whatever it is called today; no doubt it will be re-named by tomorrow) so that they can consort with the beautiful people that follow the F1 circus around the world.

He's the only one who's been pushing for a race in the NYC/NJ area, originally back in '83 and then again recently, if that's not chasing a pipe dream, I don't know what is?

The reason why Suzuka is a success is, as you say, down to the Japanese being fanatical about motor-racing, they've been involved at the top end of motorsport since the mid '60s. Those countries, Turkey, Korea, India and even Malaysia, as far as I know have no grass roots motorsport and hosting GPs seems to have done nothing to kindle one. I think it's also largely a cultural thing, with regards to Turkey, Korea, India etc., motorsport is just not a cultural persuit.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He's the only one who's been pushing for a race in the NYC/NJ area, originally back in '83 and then again recently, if that's not chasing a pipe dream, I don't know what is?

The reason why Suzuka is a success is, as you say, down to the Japanese being fanatical about motor-racing, they've been involved at the top end of motorsport since the mid '60s. Those countries, Turkey, Korea, India and even Malaysia, as far as I know have no grass roots motorsport and hosting GPs seems to have done nothing to kindle one. I think it's also largely a cultural thing, with regards to Turkey, Korea, India etc., motorsport is just not a cultural persuit.

And if the governments of those nations were putting the sort of money into developing national motorsport that they do in underwriting GP's how much better would a national sport be?

How much better would UK motorsport be with another $20 million a year....

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I don't really agree with you, I'm afraid. I grant you that Ecclestone has always wanted to have a race on the northern parts of the East Coast, he knows that, from a financial point of view, it makes sense to have a race in a city centre.This is why, IMHO, the races in Turkey, Korea, India and even Malaysia have been economical disasters; they are held in virtual wildernesses.

The exception that proves the rule is Suzuka which is comparatively in the middle of no-where (pretty well an eight hour drive from Tokyo), but it is packed because the Japanese are fanatical about motor-racing, especially F1 if a Japanese driver is on the grid; however, they are equally passionate about all the other drivers, and when I was last there, the viewing places were about 60-70% full on the Friday, and thousands of them stay on after the race finished to watch the whole race again on the giant TV screens.

I'm not sure I follow. Suzuka is nowhere near the middle of nowhere: it's located 50 km south of Nagoya and within the periphery of a metro region of 9 million people.

Likewise the races in Turkey, India and Malaysia are/were located on the outskirts of Istanbul, Delhi and Kuala Lumpur respectively; two megacities and one metro area of over 6 million. Circuit location was never a problem for these three, only Korea's failure can be attributed partially to circuit location.

[pauln]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

How long before Bernie takes a pop at Silverstone again? You know the thing : "Poor facilities, etc.". What he means is - he doesn't own it!

Some while, I should think. The current deal is a 17-year long one, starting from 2010, so there's still another 12 years to run after this year's race. The building of the new pits and paddock at the Wing have fulfilled the need for better facilities for teams (and for the Paddock Club, which is all he's really interested in, I think). So I wouldn't expect much criticism for another 10 years until there are only 2 years to run on the contract. By that point, I think it's highly unlikely that Bernie will still be the person in charge.

[Tucky]

There's been news recently about the proposed circuit of Wales. For those that are outside of the UK and haven't heard about it, they say that it would host all motor racing events apart from F1. Thing is if every other motor racing event went to that circuit instead then so would F1 after a few years. Can't see it happening myself but it really seems a possibility.

[Greem]

Construction of the CoW should have started last December; however it's been delayed because the land is largely common land and there's a legal necessity to declare it as no longer common (and replace it with a similar sized area for common usage). It's believed that will take up to a year to resolve, if not longer.

Add to that some, erm, "uncertainties" over funding and the recent question raised by the MD of Silverstone to the Office of the Prime Minister over illegal state aid, makes it look very shaky whether there will be a MotoGP race there in 2015 as originally announced.

(All the above have been gleaned from news articles - I have no agenda here whatsoever).

It's certainly a great idea/plan, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Beryl

I'm not sure I follow. Suzuka is nowhere near the middle of nowhere: it's located 50 km south of Nagoya and within the periphery of a metro region of 9 million people.

Likewise the races in Turkey, India and Malaysia are/were located on the outskirts of Istanbul, Delhi and Kuala Lumpur respectively; two megacities and one metro area of over 6 million. Circuit location was never a problem for these three, only Korea's failure can be attributed partially to circuit location.

I am not trying to pick a fight (F1 doesn't mean that much to me anymore), but you are, by leaving out crucial words from my original posting, distorting the point that I was making. Suzuka, if you have ever been there, is comparatively in the middle of no-where, especially when you consider that over 50% of the spectators drive down from Tokyo, a mere 8'ish hour journey - last time I was there, it actually took us over 9 hours, including a couple of pit-stops on the way, and we certainly weren't hanging around.

And if you have been to the other tracks that I mentioned that are in vitual wildernesses, then you will know that they can be absolute nightmares to reach from the city centres. My point was that if they were held in the actual city centres, and proper thought was put into viewing places for the public, then they might well be both successful in attracting local supporters as well as being financially sound.

However, there is no point in putting on vanity project races such as Valencia. Both the Grand Prixes and the America's Cup held there cost the city and it's environs, which covers most of the Costa Blanca, an absolute fortune which they will be paying fo for years to come. Whilst the Valencian regional government was spending hundreds of millions of Euros on the two projects, children throughout the region were being taught in portacabins and converted shipping containers.

My point is that if we are to have new circuits, then they should obviously be in countries that can demonstrate a popular demand to spectate at the event, and that they should be held in, preferably, a capital city or immediately adjacent to it but with good transport links.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I am not trying to pick a fight .

That won't help you! Sometimes the most innocent remark ...

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

My point is that if we are to have new circuits, then they should obviously be in countries that can demonstrate a popular demand to spectate at the event, and that they should be held in, preferably, a capital city or immediately adjacent to it but with good transport links.

How difficult would it be to catch a train from Tokyo to Suzuka Mike?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wnut

How difficult would it be to catch a train from Tokyo to Suzuka Mike?

From memory and the times may be incorrect, it was a two to three hour train journey to Nagoya, which is the nearest city, although there were trains to a station nearer to Suzuka where you could get a shuttle bus. You can also fly to Nagoya, but you then have to get the train and the bus.

It was my impression that the vast majority of spectators, like us, went there by car, and we didn't get home to our apartment until about 2 or 3 in the morning.

[wolfhound]

It looks like any future GP in Long Beach may not happen until 2018 as the city council proposes to give an Indycar extension until then.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/...aces-a-choice/

Are there any other places suitable for a GP in California?

[Formulahistory]

I would like to see IndyCar and F1 on the same weekend there...

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Formulahistory

I would like to see IndyCar and F1 on the same weekend there...

That would never happen - there just wouldn't be enough space in the paddock to park all the egos.