[Rules] Future Rule Changes

[lukej]

The number of competitive seats and the costs of competition both change in a positive way if FOM & the FIA allow customer cars. Williams & Ferrari both started competing as customer teams, it’s not like they haven’t been integral to F1, and it would have allowed minnows such as Manor to exist for far longer.

The problem in F1 is that the business model is broken, and all the time there’s an imbalance of FOM revenues and spending allowances there will be a two or three tier F1.

Looking at how this might be workable, the big teams should be able to scale up production of their cars to make some economies, and whilst there would undoubtedly be job losses, they would also have a need to take on some of the staff who would need jobs.

Oh, and whilst I’m trying to be sensible and save money, I’m going to suggest a development freeze or development token system for the cars. Throw in a minimum 2 year lifecycle per chassis design and regulations that should be stable for 6 years so that we have 3 iterations of aero kit per chassis. Manufacturers and customers all have to run the same spec, and outside companies like Dallara can also produce a car like NGTC had the Avensis with an FOM engine package from someone like Cosworth or Ilmor.

Luke

[EffectiveSprinkles]

That sounds dreadful.

[lukej]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

That sounds dreadful.

Can I ask which bits and why?

Looking beyond F1, in almost every other formula we have customer teams, fixed development and spec targets to make sure that there’s competition. Is that solution perfect? Of course not, but it’s far more sustainable than watching F1 collapse every 10-15 years as manufacturers lose interest.

Luke

[BSchneiderFan]

I think “collapse” is a bit strong. Formula 1 is pretty much the only championship I can think of which can trace a bona fide track record (no pun intended) back to at least 1950.

[loon]

[QUOTE=BSchneiderFan;3851429]I think “collapse” is a bit strong. Formula 1 is pretty much the only championship I can think of which can trace a bona fide track record (no pun intended) back to at least 1950.[/QUOTETurismo carretera the worlds oldest racing series and still mega strong

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by lukej

Can I ask which bits and why?

Pretty much everything you said. A lot of it has been tried in the past already too with predictable success.

[bjohnsonsmith]

[QUOTE=loon;3851449]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I think “collapse” is a bit strong. Formula 1 is pretty much the only championship I can think of which can trace a bona fide track record (no pun intended) back to at least 1950.[/QUOTE Turismo carretera the worlds oldest racing series and still mega strong

You learn something new everyday.

[Adam43]

Me too, just been reading about the early years on wiki. I wonder if there are any English history pages?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by lukej

Can I ask which bits and why?

Looking beyond F1, in almost every other formula we have customer teams, fixed development and spec targets to make sure that there’s competition. Is that solution perfect? Of course not, but it’s far more sustainable than watching F1 collapse every 10-15 years as manufacturers lose interest.

Luke

I didn't make the "dreadful" comment, but I have to say I would not be a fan of some of the things you suggest.

Without putting a great deal of thought into it, you have to realize that we are just exiting a failed "token" system. So I have a hard time thinking there is any appetite for trying that again. And any new rules would likely go into effect at the same time as new technical regulations. So just like before, the manufactures are likely to support this idea in that they will each think they will get a leg up on the other guy. Its likely that someone will get a leg up and then the others will be stuck with an effectively spec solution that can't win and a token system that prevents them from making changes fast enough to get back on pace. It would just be more of what we have today, but on the chassis side in addition to the power unit.

I think what makes F1 different from other series (and makes it hard to use solutions used elsewhere) is that the manufactures compete directly. So they have little incentive to support concepts such as "equal equipment" for their customers.

Otherwise I like some of what I think might be core concepts you mention. I think there needs to be a way to allow for customer cars and I think a simpler technical spec on the power unit (but to be fair still more than a 100% ICE solution) so that third parties can develop solutions. You also talk about the business model being broken which I fully agree with.

IMHO, the root of the cause is the balance of power has shifted too much toward the manufactures. So new regulations would need to be put in place that would not favor them (at the risk of some/all leaving). Plus the economics (both cost and profit sharing) needs to be addressed. I am a supporter of budget caps, but very few people support that concept.

Richard

[Richard C]

Most every thread eventually turns into "how to fix F1", but I think it would be fun to have a thread that is just us proposing "full" solutions to the problems. Things like "I just want loud engines" or "Give me good racing" is not enough. Basically hit all of the problem areas. The economics, quality of racing, etc. I may try to create a thread later this week if I have time. Put in place some basic ground rules and then let everyone post their ideas.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Most every thread eventually turns into "how to fix F1", but I think it would be fun to have a thread that is just us proposing "full" solutions to the problems. Things like "I just want loud engines" or "Give me good racing" is not enough. Basically hit all of the problem areas. The economics, quality of racing, etc. I may try to create a thread later this week if I have time. Put in place some basic ground rules and then let everyone post their ideas.

Richard

Why not call it "How to fix F1"?

[EffectiveSprinkles]

That sounds like a great idea.

[lukej]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Why not call it "How to fix F1"?

I’m all for such a thread. And to clarify, I was purely exploring a rabbit hole, I most certainly do not have all the answers. That said, I always find it trying when people counter with short answers of little substance in any discussion, it just feels like they can’t be bothered to actually discuss the topic.

Luke

[Richard C]

I created the thread...

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3851503

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I created the thread...

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3851503

Richard

Excellent.

[V8 Fireworks]

Great thinking!

[hondafan37]

A four-part qualifying session for 2019?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/a-four...sion-for-2019/

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

A four-part qualifying session for 2019?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/a-four...sion-for-2019/

Waaat?!!

No thanks!!!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

A four-part qualifying session for 2019?

https://www.planetf1.com/news/a-four...sion-for-2019/

Totally unnecessary. I've said it before, if Formula 1 can find a way to over complicate something, they will.

[E.B]

As I said in another thread this issue was raised, If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[chillibowl]

the one thing missing from the article is the reason why they are looking at tweaking the current format. as far as i can tell most like it as is and the teams dont seem to have an issue with it.

i can only assume it is a way to further increase the number of laps the top runners will have to run?

that said, if a change is bundled with points for quali and/or a relaxation of the tire rules to start the race with then i dont really have a problem with an extra session and more laps.

but yeah, it does strike me as a change for change sake/moving the deck chairs around type of adjustment.

[S griffin]

It seems the important things that need changing are never attended to, but they always like tweaking things that are fine the way they are

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

the one thing missing from the article is the reason why they are looking at tweaking the current format. as far as i can tell most like it as is and the teams dont seem to have an issue with it.

i can only assume it is a way to further increase the number of laps the top runners will have to run?

that said, if a change is bundled with points for quali and/or a relaxation of the tire rules to start the race with then i dont really have a problem with an extra session and more laps.

but yeah, it does strike me as a change for change sake/moving the deck chairs around type of adjustment.

That's it! Up the mileage on the front runner's cars causing them to have more PU and gearbox failures, meaning grid panalties thereby giving the smaller teams a chance.
You have to hand it to them, this is true genius!

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by S griffin

It seems the important things that need changing are never attended to, but they always like tweaking things that are fine the way they are

I think that you've offered a definition of how F1 is managed generally in one succinct sentence.

No need to play with Qual format (no doubt there'd be some unexpected consequences from the changes too) - they should use the time put into thinking about a new Qual format to better use by re-jigging the whole game to fix the bigger issues.

[V8 Fireworks]

I note with interest that Michelin were happy to supply the 15" Champcar-sized
tyres for Superleague Formula (sized to fit 15"x12" front rims, 15x16 rear rims -- slightly beefier than the 15x11 front & 15x14 rear rims used by IRL and current Indycar).

I wonder why Michelin refused to tender for F1 and demanded 18" for F1 then!?

15" would be a good compromise rim size for F1 between 13" and 18" IMO.




15" tyres look good don't you think?

Crucially the overall diameter of the front tyre is smaller than the rear... Unlike in modern F1 that looks silly with 660 mm overall diameter fronts (same as rear tyre overall diameter) compared to the classic looking 635mm overall diameter front tyres used in the Goodyear era.