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Old 3 Apr 2009, 18:14 (Ref:2432627)   #51
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NightStalk3r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridNightStalk3r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Another team who tried to go it alone rather than taking the easy (sensible?) option of buying off the shelf.
Epsilon Euskadi is a Motor Racing Innovation & Technology School, Buying off the shelf was never even considered, because it would have been pointless.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 18:21 (Ref:2432641)   #52
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Epsilon Euskadi is a Motor Racing Innovation & Technology School, Buying off the shelf was never even considered, because it would have been pointless.
Don't agree. Look what Perscarolo has done with the Courage.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 18:25 (Ref:2432647)   #53
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Don't agree. Look what Perscarolo has done with the Courage.
Huh? EE is a school where they teach how to do it all, how is that the same as Pesca?




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Old 3 Apr 2009, 20:01 (Ref:2432720)   #54
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Huh? EE is a school where they teach how to do it all, how is that the same as Pesca?

L.P.
What's the better option, building a new car from the ground up and POSSIBLY going out of business after one season, or developing a Lola or Courage as Pescarolo, Acura and Aston Martin have, then taking the next step.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 20:15 (Ref:2432736)   #55
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What's the better option, building a new car from the ground up and POSSIBLY going out of business after one season, or developing a Lola or Courage as Pescarolo, Acura and Aston Martin have, then taking the next step.

They are a school and one of the by-products of it is the racing chassis!! What is so hard to understand about that?? Here



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Old 3 Apr 2009, 20:26 (Ref:2432745)   #56
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Using a Courage or Lola chassis doesn't mean you can learn nothing. That's why I used the Pescarolo example. They started with the Courage C60 and over the years developed it to their current car.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 20:27 (Ref:2432746)   #57
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I wonder how far they've even gotten on the ee2, or if they've abandoned that as well.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 20:34 (Ref:2432752)   #58
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Using a Courage or Lola chassis doesn't mean you can learn nothing. That's why I used the Pescarolo example. They started with the Courage C60 and over the years developed it to their current car.
Because the whole idea of the school is to teach students every aspect of design and construction of race cars.
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 23:00 (Ref:2432835)   #59
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Because the whole idea of the school is to teach students every aspect of design and construction of race cars.
How much Courage is still left in the Pesca? Or even the Acura P2 for that matter. I'm pretty dang sure there isn't anything they couldn't learn just from the example set by Henri. The body work is different, so they learn Carbon Fibre Fabrication, the suspension and aero are different so they learn skills to work on those, the list goes on and on.

Add to that the Japanese and their school that ran a LMP1 last year, totally off the shelf Courage with a YGK engine. They learn, just as other purchasers learn, how to install and service any part of the car. Just because you are not building the car initially, does not mean you don't rebuild any part you deem necessary. (again the Pesca example)

I admire the Euskadi effort, I had hoped they would have a been able to continue. Just like I had big hopes for the Embassy WFO1s. Somehow the WR continues...has anyone noticed how much the new Audi looks like an amalgamation of the old flat nosed WRs and the newer one, Take the nose from the old WR, mate it to the shark gilled new WR and POOF! You almost have the R15.....hmmmmmm
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Old 3 Apr 2009, 23:25 (Ref:2432842)   #60
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How much Courage is still left in the Pesca? Or even the Acura P2 for that matter. I'm pretty dang sure there isn't anything they couldn't learn just from the example set by Henri. The body work is different, so they learn Carbon Fibre Fabrication, the suspension and aero are different so they learn skills to work on those, the list goes on and on.

Add to that the Japanese and their school that ran a LMP1 last year, totally off the shelf Courage with a YGK engine. They learn, just as other purchasers learn, how to install and service any part of the car. Just because you are not building the car initially, does not mean you don't rebuild any part you deem necessary. (again the Pesca example)

I admire the Euskadi effort, I had hoped they would have a been able to continue. Just like I had big hopes for the Embassy WFO1s. Somehow the WR continues...has anyone noticed how much the new Audi looks like an amalgamation of the old flat nosed WRs and the newer one, Take the nose from the old WR, mate it to the shark gilled new WR and POOF! You almost have the R15.....hmmmmmm
The whole point is it is a SCHOOL that teaches how to do these things! The racing is a BY-PRODUCT of their hands on education! It is not designed as a race team that has interns! Your getting the cart before the horse.



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Old 3 Apr 2009, 23:54 (Ref:2432856)   #61
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Sad news on Epsilon , hopefully this is a temporary withdrawal, hoping this hasnt got anything to do with the economy but as it is wouldnt be surprised.
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 00:31 (Ref:2432869)   #62
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I'm noticing on the official LM entry list, there's a bold black line separating R5 and R6 on the reserve entry list. What is that line for?
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 03:32 (Ref:2432918)   #63
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Another team who tried to go it alone rather than taking the easy (sensible?) option of buying off the shelf.

Epsilon, Embassy, are Creation next?

Regardless of Epsilon continuing or not, I think it's fair to say Lola, ORECA, Zytek and Pescarolo have the customer market sown up, with strength in numbers giving them the best chance to challenge major manufacturer's cars.
Epsilon Euskadi is not just another team. They have four parts that make them very unique:

  • Education
  • Design and R&D
  • Production
  • Racing Teams
http://www.epsiloneuskadi.com/epsilo...=38&language=2

Does Epsilon need more funding in order to race? They had planned to debut the new ee2 coupe at Le Mans.

Last edited by bil588; 4 Apr 2009 at 03:33. Reason: sponsors?
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 07:29 (Ref:2432974)   #64
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Thats very sad news, EE is not just another team. Best of hope for them, loved their copue last year!
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 11:43 (Ref:2433124)   #65
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Originally Posted by NightStalk3r View Post
Because the whole idea of the school is to teach students every aspect of design and construction of race cars.
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Originally Posted by HORNDAWG View Post
The whole point is it is a SCHOOL that teaches how to do these things! The racing is a BY-PRODUCT of their hands on education! It is not designed as a race team that has interns! Your getting the cart before the horse.



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That does mean they have to build every year a new car from scratch. Hmmm not very likely, isn't it?
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 11:50 (Ref:2433129)   #66
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That does mean they have to build every year a new car from scratch. Hmmm not very likely, isn't it?
A new year, a new bunch of students, it is a school afterall.
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 14:39 (Ref:2433292)   #67
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Such a shame it is a beautiful looking car, I envy those students Does anyone know if there is a die cast or plastic model available or in the works for this car? I am thinking it's probably a long shot but I would love to add this to my collection.
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 14:53 (Ref:2433306)   #68
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JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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They are a school and one of the by-products of it is the racing chassis!! What is so hard to understand about that?? Here
L.P.
Acura are a car manufacturer who started with an off the shelf car, I'd say that carries a little more weight.

These students presumably intend to work in the car and motorsport industry, developing and running a car is as important as the initial design, otherwise how do you learn from your mistakes.
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 15:02 (Ref:2433313)   #69
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NightStalk3r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridNightStalk3r should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Acura are a car manufacturer who started with an off the shelf car, I'd say that carries a little more weight.
EE are a design and technology SCHOOL not a production car manufacturer, your not going to teach your students how to build design and build a car from scratch by buying an off the shelf car.

You don't see art students buying art off a shelf and using that to pass there degree.

Last edited by Aysedasi; 7 Apr 2009 at 19:41.
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 15:07 (Ref:2433316)   #70
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A new year, a new bunch of students, it is a school afterall.
and lots of DNFs and other bad results (see 2008)
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Old 4 Apr 2009, 15:42 (Ref:2433339)   #71
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EE are a design and technology SCHOOL not a production car manufacturer, your not going to teach your students how to build design and build a car from scratch by buying an off the shelf car.

You don't see art students buying art off a shelf and using that to pass there degree.
Your not 100% impartial so that has to be taken into account.

Acura, ORECA, Pescarolo and Aston Martin are all major manufacturers or racing car constructors, all with their own designers and engineers at the top of their profession.

Quite obviously Epsilon saw some value in competing for more than one season and developing an evolution of the EE1, as a major part of the industry is the development and running of a car, learn from your mistakes.

I'm saying with hindsight it may have been more cost effective to follow the route of said manufacturer's, learn from and improve on the best. The real long term learning and knowledge is gained over many years, that's how the expertise is gained at the likes of Audi Sport, Mclaren, ORECA etc.

Last edited by Aysedasi; 7 Apr 2009 at 19:41.
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Old 5 Apr 2009, 23:50 (Ref:2434693)   #72
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HORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridHORNDAWG should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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EE are a design and technology SCHOOL not a production car manufacturer, your not going to teach your students how to build design and build a car from scratch by buying an off the shelf car.

You don't see art students buying art off a shelf and using that to pass there degree.
Dude, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!





L.P.

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Old 6 Apr 2009, 02:39 (Ref:2434763)   #73
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+ Don't EE run single seater formula that would suit all the off the shelf learning requirements???
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Old 6 Apr 2009, 13:18 (Ref:2435162)   #74
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Is the development of the EE-2 still going on or is the whole project cancelled?
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Old 6 Apr 2009, 16:18 (Ref:2435291)   #75
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Dude, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink!
L.P.
Don't you think it's slightly ridiculous to suggest a race program that was intended to continue into this year and beyond, together with the development of a new car, wasn't integral to the learning process?
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