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Old 5 Sep 2018, 06:44 (Ref:3848274)   #226
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Romain G has been dq’d from the race meaning Sirtokin gets his first F1 points



Not worthy of discussion? Seems to me that scrutineering should be done prior to the race by folks in charge, not by lawyers afterward.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 07:39 (Ref:3848278)   #227
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Kempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKempi should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It is called self-assessment and has been that way forever. The teams can take risks but must live with the risks if they are testing limits. Scrutineering before the race might lead to less cars on the grid as well.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 09:31 (Ref:3848290)   #228
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Not worthy of discussion? Seems to me that scrutineering should be done prior to the race by folks in charge, not by lawyers afterward.
My understanding is that Haas had been advised of discrepancies in their floor, along with other teams. They were given until Monza to fix said problem areas.... Haas said they could not fix the problem in time, maybe by Singapore they could, but other teams with similar changes to make could meet said Monza deadline. Haas did not make the changes by Monza as requested and rightfully got protested by another team who had themselves fixed a similar problem within the (Monza) time limit given by the FIA.

Haas took a chance and lost out. They were treated fairly.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 10:18 (Ref:3848295)   #229
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Not worthy of discussion? Seems to me that scrutineering should be done prior to the race by folks in charge, not by lawyers afterward.
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My understanding is that Haas had been advised of discrepancies in their floor, along with other teams. They were given until Monza to fix said problem areas.... Haas said they could not fix the problem in time, maybe by Singapore they could, but other teams with similar changes to make could meet said Monza deadline. Haas did not make the changes by Monza as requested and rightfully got protested by another team who had themselves fixed a similar problem within the (Monza) time limit given by the FIA.

Haas took a chance and lost out. They were treated fairly.
The cars go through scrutineering at the start of the weekend. There are so many parts and set up changes that can be made post-scrutineering that the cars that race can be very different from those presented at scrutineering - hence the post race checks.

But in this case as E.B. says Haas were fully aware that their car was non-compliant (and Renault also knew this). The issue is that Haas had no way of making their car compliant for Monza as they're waiting on externally sourced parts (or so they claim). So the car has been 'illegal' for some time and they were told to get it sorted by Monza - the supplier hasn't come up with the parts so Haas had the choice of run illegal or not run at all.

If Haas had finished outside the points I doubt whether Renault would have bothered with the protest - it's just that Grosjean's points jumped Haas ahead of Renault in the Constructors Championship.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3848296)   #230
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Team radio snippets from Monza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQL4dlt-vdo

Those marshals at 0:07s would've needed a change of underwear after that!! And Kimi... "Thank you."
And comparing Hamilton's comments on the slow down lap after winning in Ferrari's back yard, to Vettel's comments on the slow down lap after winning in Hamilton's/Mercedes back yard, it's easy to see which one of them really deserves to be called a five time 'champion'.


Some onboards from Monza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_bCXbKgL_w

1:19 - 1:22s is pretty interesting. And is looks to me that Magnussen had zero intentions of taking Roggia at 2:43s. Perez was lucky he was slightly behind.


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Old 5 Sep 2018, 11:29 (Ref:3848305)   #231
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The cars go through scrutineering at the start of the weekend. There are so many parts and set up changes that can be made post-scrutineering that the cars that race can be very different from those presented at scrutineering - hence the post race checks.

But in this case as E.B. says Haas were fully aware that their car was non-compliant (and Renault also knew this). The issue is that Haas had no way of making their car compliant for Monza as they're waiting on externally sourced parts (or so they claim). So the car has been 'illegal' for some time and they were told to get it sorted by Monza - the supplier hasn't come up with the parts so Haas had the choice of run illegal or not run at all.

If Haas had finished outside the points I doubt whether Renault would have bothered with the protest - it's just that Grosjean's points jumped Haas ahead of Renault in the Constructors Championship.
force majuer

Another point that needs to be made is that the contract between Haas and FOM dictates that they are required to perform at every race during the season (force majeure not withstanding).

I would imagine that even before the race weekend Renault were aware that the Haas car was non-compliant at the time that it went through scrutineering at the commencement of the weekend, but to allow Haas to comply with their FOM contract, they did not protest at that time.

Of course, it may be that Renault was the other team or one of the teams whose cars were non-compliant, and therefore actually felt aggrieved that Haas hadn't complied in the specified time-frame. It is also possible that Renault had agreed with Haas that their intention was to lodge the protest after the race.

Strange as it may seem, teams do co-operate with each other from time to time.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 11:36 (Ref:3848308)   #232
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Has it been confirmed that Renault was this "other" team that was non-compliant? Can someone provide proof that it was Renaults floor that also had to be changed before Monza??








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Old 5 Sep 2018, 14:29 (Ref:3848326)   #233
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Has it been confirmed that Renault was this "other" team that was non-compliant? Can someone provide proof that it was Renaults floor that also had to be changed before Monza??

Whether Renault had to change their floor or not is irrelevant - they knew that the Haas floor was illegal so could put in a protest and get them hoofed out of the results if they needed to.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 14:42 (Ref:3848330)   #234
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Has it been confirmed that Renault was this "other" team that was non-compliant? Can someone provide proof that it was Renaults floor that also had to be changed before Monza??








Didn't Renault comply in time? If so, they had every right to lodge a protest.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 14:44 (Ref:3848332)   #235
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They had a warning and didn’t get it sorted in time. If Magnussen’s car was alright, so should of Grosjean’s
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 14:57 (Ref:3848334)   #236
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They had a warning and didn’t get it sorted in time. If Magnussen’s car was alright, so should of Grosjean’s
Was Magnussen's car ok? Or was it that they only protested Grosjean's car as that was the only one in the points?
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 16:07 (Ref:3848345)   #237
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Was Magnussen's car ok? Or was it that they only protested Grosjean's car as that was the only one in the points?

It would probably have been churlish to protest both cars. As it is, Haas will be denied the valuable point that may have led to an increased payment from FOM.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 19:26 (Ref:3848368)   #238
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But in this case as E.B. says Haas were fully aware that their car was non-compliant (and Renault also knew this). The issue is that Haas had no way of making their car compliant for Monza as they're waiting on externally sourced parts (or so they claim). So the car has been 'illegal' for some time and they were told to get it sorted by Monza - the supplier hasn't come up with the parts so Haas had the choice of run illegal or not run at all.
The article (Autosport IIRC) I read suggested that Haas were told that they risked this if they didn’t change by Monza.
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 20:47 (Ref:3848381)   #239
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Main reason..Why would Sauber/Ferrari complain about a Ferrari pulling out on them.. Here's a few quid...Ssshh..
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Old 5 Sep 2018, 20:54 (Ref:3848387)   #240
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Main reason..Why would Sauber/Ferrari complain about a Ferrari pulling out on them.. Here's a few quid...Ssshh..
Ooh you cynic you!
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Old 8 Sep 2018, 11:54 (Ref:3848850)   #241
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The article (Autosport IIRC) I read suggested that Haas were told that they risked this if they didn’t change by Monza.
Chain Bear F1 has a video on YT that explains, in great details, what was wrong with the Haas floor.

Video here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUC2gDPiHEc
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Old 24 Sep 2018, 23:10 (Ref:3852505)   #242
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Yup. I agree, but i can garentee people will be complaining about Mercedes the second Bottas is asked to move over for Hamilton
What about being asked to slow up another car, to the detriment of bottas' race?
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Old 25 Sep 2018, 00:56 (Ref:3852511)   #243
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What about being asked to slow up another car, to the detriment of bottas' race?
Would never happen, Mercedes' policy is to let their drivers race, Toto told us they're all about the sport!
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