Tech Question: Running on 100% ethanol?!

[Jonerz]

This year has been the first year we see Indy Car switching fully to Ethanol fuel. Whether ethanol powered cars are the be-all end-all is yet to be decided. But here is what I have heard.

1) When Indy Car switched to Methanol with an Ethanol blend they did much to improve the "green-ness" of their cars. (Though the green-ness of Ethanol is still unclear to me.)

2) Switching to 100% Ethanol puts them in a much better situation green-wise. However, is it possible with the modern racing fuel cell to actually run on 100% Ethanol?!

Chris

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

This year has been the first year we see Indy Car switching fully to Ethanol fuel. Whether ethanol powered cars are the be-all end-all is yet to be decided. But here is what I have heard.

1) When Indy Car switched to Methanol with an Ethanol blend they did much to improve the "green-ness" of their cars. (Though the green-ness of Ethanol is still unclear to me.)

2) Switching to 100% Ethanol puts them in a much better situation green-wise. However, is it possible with the modern racing fuel cell to actually run on 100% Ethanol?!

Chris

Ethanol is less corrosive than Methanol, but is still corrosive.

[Leighton Irwin]

Race cars have been running methanol for years and as stated ethanol is less corrosive. There is some question as to how green both are considering the energy and water used to produce them.
Jonerz: If you go to Mosport for a club race you will find the 4 stroke F4 cars running methanol. They have been since the early 80's. It ain't fun to work with though!

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by Leighton Irwin

Race cars have been running methanol for years and as stated ethanol is less corrosive. There is some question as to how green both are considering the energy and water used to produce them.
Jonerz: If you go to Mosport for a club race you will find the 4 stroke F4 cars running methanol. They have been since the early 80's. It ain't fun to work with though!

Way back when Gilles Villeneuve was just a yout embarassing factory teams, snowmobiles raced on dope, exotic fuels, of which alcohol was one.
They used to race on a short in-door track in Duluth and the alcohol mixed with special oils for two-stroke engines caused a indoor fog which burned the spectator's eyes.

Alcohol has different exhaust components from gasoline, green is not the term I would use.
Bob

[thebear]

Originally Posted by Jonerz

This year has been the first year we see Indy Car switching fully to Ethanol fuel. Whether ethanol powered cars are the be-all end-all is yet to be decided. But here is what I have heard.

2) Switching to 100% Ethanol puts them in a much better situation green-wise. However, is it possible with the modern racing fuel cell to actually run on 100% Ethanol?! Chris

Almost correct. They are running E98. The 2% is plain old unleaded gasoline. It is a `tax' situation. 100% Ethanol is the stuff they make liquor out of and the Government wants it's share. When it crosses a State boundry line the State wants a cut as well. The gasoline addition is just enough to `spoil' it for booze.

[NAC]

Here you go. Here is some light reading for you all

Article:Methanol -- Ethanol's Sister Product
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Methanol_--_Ethanol's_Sister_Product

Domestic Fuel, Alternative Fuel News. Ethanol vs. Methanol
http://domesticfuel.com/?p=196

Directory:Ethanol
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Ethanol

[Purist]

Yes, it is E98. However, as I understand it (from someone involved with the Rahal/Letterman operation), if they went to 100% ethanol, the ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms) would be involved.

The Alfa Romeo Type 159 "Alfetta" ran on "dope" fuel for the 1950 and 1951 F1 seasons. The same goes for the Mercedes-Benz W196 F1 car of 1954-55. A number of the pre-war Grand Prix and Indianapolis cars (Miller 91, Alfa Romeo 8C 2300/2600/2900, Maserati 8C, Auto Union) used AvGas, Methanol, Benzol, etc for fuel. Some cars used mixtures of more than one of these.

I should mention too that petroleum is used in the manufacture of ethanol.

[NAC]

I see A1 GP are switching to biofuel (30% ethanol mix) this season

http://www.a1teamracer.com/

[Dutton]

They should just run on used cooking oil. There are plenty of commercial outlets that have lots of the stuff for throwing out.

[Jonerz]

I honestly have learned a ton from the reading and your answers guys. I just assumed (before this weekend) that because historically, American Open-Wheelers ran on methanol, what was stopping them from 100% ethanol. I got a tip from one of my many sources that it was impossible and I assumed it was because of it being corrosive and all - who knew it was Uncle Sam!

Thanks guys,

Chris

[Leighton Irwin]

Actually when we ran Methanol we originally ran with Castrol R in the fuel. We later switched to synthetic oil. We needed the oil for lubrication as the Methanol removed all lubrication from the interior of the engine and methanol will not mix with mineral oil. We also ran acetone, especially in cold weather to make it a little easier to fire the fuel. It was quite common to start the engines by spraying gas into the injectors or carbs.