Supercars Gen 3 (2022)

[Casper]

A thesis could be written on why people change leisure pursuits away from what previous generations did. One huge impact on motor sport in this country is the implosion happening in karting, cutting the roots out of motor sport. The knock on effect will be felt through the next decade initially and that has already begun.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

I agree with alot of what you say, although I've found my friends who are in that age group are majority not interested in motor racing. They would rather play the latest online game or go to a music festival.

Most of the guys i know my age (im 35) have been brought up as a child attending motor racing. Mainly with our parents or grand parents racing and sometimes we have got the chance to.

Biggest issue i see with road racing is the extremely long event formats with long down time between races. Most speedway events I have attended this year have had big crowds, why because its during the evening and starts at 6pm and over by 10pm.

Agree, My first event as a spectator was Speedway, in a country town.
Years later , I did caravan racing, and Demo derby's . The crowds loved it.
You are right about speedway, great events, races run, and done in the space of 4 hours, punters are happy and good nights.

As a volunteer at circuit racing, on track around 7:30 am , finish around 4:00pm, for the first day, practice , qualify and maybe a race or two.
Then back the next day to do the same :

Very drawn out .

[Juarez Jed]

Personally I find all the stoppages at a Speedway event very frustrating.

Sure the whole thing is over in 4 hours but the amount of green flag racing compared to the time for warm ups and yellow flags does my head in.

[bloxsidgemotorsport]

Offtopic here but..

This what i would love to see tried to address spectator attendance issues.

Run a series over 4 weekends during summer at Late arvo evening under lights, starting at 5pm and over by 9pm.

5 classes - Supercars, S5000, TA2, Excels and Superbikes.

Format is
12pm to 4pm - Practice & Qualifying.

5pm - Excel Race 1 - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- TA2 Race 1 - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- Super Bikes - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- S5000 - Top 10 Shootout
- Supercars - Top 10 Shootout
6.30pm - Excel Feature 15 Laps
- TA2 Feature 15 laps
- Super Bikes Feature 15 Laps
- S5000 Feature Race 40Laps
- V8 Supercars Feature 40 Laps

Racing at Sydney, Winton, The Bend and Barbagallo.

I bet with right promotion you would pack the house.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bloxsidgemotorsport

Offtopic here but..

This what i would love to see tried to address spectator attendance issues.

Run a series over 4 weekends during summer at Late arvo evening under lights, starting at 5pm and over by 9pm.

5 classes - Supercars, S5000, TA2, Excels and Superbikes.

Format is
12pm to 4pm - Practice & Qualifying.

5pm - Excel Race 1 - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- TA2 Race 1 - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- Super Bikes - 10 Laps Reverse Grid Race
- S5000 - Top 10 Shootout
- Supercars - Top 10 Shootout
6.30pm - Excel Feature 15 Laps
- TA2 Feature 15 laps
- Super Bikes Feature 15 Laps
- S5000 Feature Race 40Laps
- V8 Supercars Feature 40 Laps

Racing at Sydney, Winton, The Bend and Barbagallo.

I bet with right promotion you would pack the house.

Put your money up and have a go. We had combined bike & car meetings and they died but I can't remember the details. I suppose one of the problems is the circuit safety is vastly different for both.

[Tourer]

Murph is pretty bullish about Gen 3. Let's hope he's right and the new car regs assist with better racing overall.

[benny41]

Originally Posted by Juarez Jed

Personally I find all the stoppages at a Speedway event very frustrating.

Sure the whole thing is over in 4 hours but the amount of green flag racing compared to the time for warm ups and yellow flags does my head in.

Sure ill agree the odd sprintcar meeting that can happen if there are a few reds but most other divisions are pretty good.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Murph is pretty bullish about Gen 3. Let's hope he's right and the new car regs assist with better racing overall.

If after all these years of experience they could not improve on it then they have a real problem. Better racing means different things to different people so it is a moving target that will never please everyone. You will rarely see a plan such as this to make racing better described and targeted by those who are doing it.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

I will, I prefer to watch Formula One these days and am not fussed about missing most of the ATCC races. :

V8 Fireworks would be a close to more accurate representation of wider motor racing fans in Australia.

Not just that, but he gives supercars a go according to his quote. Outside of Bathurst the majority of fans in this country mostly ignore supercars.

F1 is where motor racing interest in Australia has been fueled, and for close to 40 years now. But it's not quantifiable because it's not a part of domestic racing. This is an oversight of numerous posters on here.

F1 is "eurocentric" (like with general motoring), and if a eurocentric class was introduced to Australia, it'll get a following. This has been the case even with the finishing of super touring, but there's never really been good admin for domestic racing culture here.

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

F1 is where motor racing interest in Australia has been fueled, and for close to 40 years now. But it's not quantifiable because it's not a part of domestic racing.

Hmmm - I honestly don't know if it is still the case but for many years Supercars had much higher TV ratings than F1 here in Oz, so not convinced you're on the money there.

Not an either/or situation though - both F1 and domestic racing are of great interest to many that I know.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by Casper

A thesis could be written on why people change leisure pursuits away from what previous generations did. One huge impact on motor sport in this country is the implosion happening in karting, cutting the roots out of motor sport. The knock on effect will be felt through the next decade initially and that has already begun.

Karting in NZ had, I'm pretty sure, less than 1000 race licence holders at one stage. It was rather sad to see as we had massive fields in the mid-1990's. We had three classes at our kart club that had close to track limit fields. The KT 100 was the engine of the day.

Later on, there was a move to more international categories which escalated costs massively and alienated a huge amount of kart racers who simply did it for the love and fun of the sport. A guy I know was doing an "arrive and drive" deal, for his son, although he owned all the gear. He knocked it on the head when it got to around $2500 a meeting.

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

V8 Fireworks would be a close to more accurate representation of wider motor racing fans in Australia.

Not just that, but he gives supercars a go according to his quote. Outside of Bathurst the majority of fans in this country mostly ignore supercars.

F1 is where motor racing interest in Australia has been fueled, and for close to 40 years now. But it's not quantifiable because it's not a part of domestic racing. This is an oversight of numerous posters on here.

F1 is "eurocentric" (like with general motoring), and if a eurocentric class was introduced to Australia, it'll get a following. This has been the case even with the finishing of super touring, but there's never really been good admin for domestic racing culture here.

Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3? As stand-alone events, I wonder what their track attendance was like?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3?

Formula Holden would have been a lot more successful as Australia's premier open-wheel class with the proper 3L V8s (be it Judd, Mugen-Honda whatever) instead of those god-awful Buick V6s IMO...

Just look at the far greater success of Japanese Formula 3000!

Australians like V8s, V8s are supposed to be raspy and have a high-pitched wail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIp_AKK7gp0

[Tourer]

Originally Posted by Casper

A thesis could be written on why people change leisure pursuits away from what previous generations did. One huge impact on motor sport in this country is the implosion happening in karting, cutting the roots out of motor sport. The knock on effect will be felt through the next decade initially and that has already begun.

Maybe, except the implosion is only in NSW and the rest of the states are now seeing significantly increased entries to club and state level competition - 1st round of the Australian Kart Championship just postponed due to Covid with just under 300 entries already received.

At some point the sport is likely to re-unite in NSW (as it has done before, this division seems to pop up in NSW from time to time) and although hurt, will start to grow in that state again but will be behind the other states for some time most likely.

[benny41]

Id argue that australian motorsport suffers a bit from having too many different classes / variations that all in all are pretty similar. With a relatively small population base. you end up with plenty of classes with few cars on track which leads to not very good racing.

I also think the challenge of having cars that are so reliant on having both a knowledge of mechanical and electrical systems is challenging. Id also say that in general younger people are looking at smaller houses which gennerally doesnt allow for a trailer/racecar setup easily.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Maybe, except the implosion is only in NSW and the rest of the states are now seeing significantly increased entries to club and state level competition - 1st round of the Australian Kart Championship just postponed due to Covid with just under 300 entries already received.

At some point the sport is likely to re-unite in NSW (as it has done before, this division seems to pop up in NSW from time to time) and although hurt, will start to grow in that state again but will be behind the other states for some time most likely.

By implosion I mean the total national grid. When we first started karting the total numbers were slightly north of 10,000 competitors which it is nowhere near now for a whole raft of reasons and bad management is only one but a crucial one.

[Tony C]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

Formula Holden would have been a lot more successful as Australia's premier open-wheel class with the proper 3L V8s (be it Judd, Mugen-Honda whatever) instead of those god-awful Buick V6s IMO...

Just look at the far greater success of Japanese Formula 3000!

Australians like V8s, V8s are supposed to be raspy and have a high-pitched wail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIp_AKK7gp0

Australia could not afford to run the original F3000 engines which is why they were converted to the V6. You can dream as much as you like but entrants pockets are only so deep and the more expensive the category the less entrants.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Tony C

You can dream as much as you like

2 litre, four-cylinder, hybrid, 600hp -- this is the future of sports coupes but the Supercars Gen 3 platform won't cater to it, even though Gen 3 is supposed to cater to market-relevant sports coupes.



At least the body will fit over the roll hoop, but would Polestar really come back to race a V8, when Geely have said clearly that hybridisation and then electric is the future?

Maximum system outputs are 600bhp and 737lb ft, and on electricity alone, Polestar claims a 93-mile (150km) range.

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/polestar/1

[Juarez Jed]

Originally Posted by Tony C

Australia could not afford to run the original F3000 engines which is why they were converted to the V6. You can dream as much as you like but entrants pockets are only so deep and the more expensive the category the less entrants.

That was Big Darrell Eastlake's continual whinge that they weren't true F3000's and as you said, the V6 3800 was the only thing that kept them even remotely affordable as a national category.

[2 litre Touring Car Star]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Did Australia not see Euro-centric classes in the form of Formula Holden/Brabham and F3? As stand-alone events, I wonder what their track attendance was like?

I'm sure what the where you're getting at with the question?

[Just Do It!]

Originally Posted by 2 litre Touring Car Star

I'm sure what the where you're getting at with the question?

Sorry, I may've overlooked the pay drivers, and speaking of sensical questions, please refer to quote above ^^^^^^

Did F3 or Formula Holden/Brabham ever run as stand-alone meetings and did anyone attend?

There you go - same, but different

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Just Do It!

Sorry, I may've overlooked the pay drivers, and speaking of sensical questions, please refer to quote above ^^^^^^

Did F3 or Formula Holden/Brabham ever run as stand-alone meetings and did anyone attend?

There you go - same, but different

And the answer is yes, Formula Brabham in 1991.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzy8am0QAh4

Did anyone attend? - no.

Formula type racing, outside of the AGP and IndyCar at Surfers, has not attracted crowds since the late seventies.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by chavez

And the answer is yes, Formula Brabham in 1991.

Did anyone attend? - no.

Formula type racing, outside of the AGP and IndyCar at Surfers, has not attracted crowds since the late seventies.

That's because Formula Brabham cars used those Buick 90-degree V6s that sound like a wet fart, instead of the wailing V8s used in AGP and Indycar.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

That's because Formula Brabham cars used those Buick 90-degree V6s that sound like a wet fart, instead of the wailing V8s used in AGP and Indycar.

Do you really think that engine sound alone was the sole cause of the series failure and there was absolutely no other reason?

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Casper

Do you really think that engine sound alone was the sole cause of the series failure and there was absolutely no other reason?

If all the top drivers and race teams in Australia (plus plenty of top imports like Magnussen, Vandoorne etc) raced open wheel cars, ones which sound good, I think it could be very successful indeed, and not cost anymore than running a 3A Touring Car for a season.

Of course they would be unable to race at Bathurst because of safety issues, but circuits like Eastern Creek, Phillip Island and The Bend would all be excellent for hosting state Grand Prixs. Heck such a category would be more than sufficient to headline the South Australian Grand Prix at the Adelaide Parklands, and the Queensland Grand Prix at the Surfers Paradise Circuit.

People love (proper) open wheel racing, it is a lot of fun! S5000 is a good try but it's not quite there, it's too obvious they are modified F3 cars with Ford small block V8s, and I don't believe the fuel tank capacity (which has not been expanded from the F3) is sufficient to run a 305km Grand Prix.

GP2 regularly produces exceptional close racing, and it only costs $1.5m AUD per car per season (about the same as running a Supercar), so a similar Formula 3000-type class could easily be Australia's (and Australasia's) premier circuit racing category IMO. Races in Malaysia at the world class Sepang circuit, Thailand at the Buriram Circuit, Indonesia at the Sentul circuit and so on, would only add to the calibre of Australasia's premier open-wheel Grand Prix series.

Formula Holden by comparison was too much of a cut-priced, bare bones minor class -- some of this self-inflicted by running a meagre grid of ancient 8-year-old Reynards with Buick V6s that sound awful -- instead of a flagship premier F3000/Grand Prix series of a higher status, headline 305km Grand Prixs at Adelaide/Gold Coast, and higher commercial relevance than the ATCC.

...Who wouldn't want to watch Hartley, van Gisbergen, Reid, McLaughlin, Whincup, Halliday, Albon, Vandoorne, Magnussen, Winterbottom, Vips, Mostert, de Silvestro and co banging wheels in Australiasia's premier open-wheel class in cars plastered with brands like Penrite, Shell, Red Bull etc!?