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Old 3 Oct 2002, 00:01 (Ref:394500)   #1
Valve Bounce
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Too many good drivers - too few F1 seats

The protracted Arrows debacle and the late, late silly season will end up disappointing several drivers. On the list of probables for seats will be Webber and Irvine, possibles will include Jos, Pedro de la Rosa, Massa, Bernoldi, Sato, hopefuls and wishfulls will include Pizzonia, Wilson, Yoong, Davidson, Wurz, Gene, Badoer, Burti, ...... There are realistically 4 racing seats to put the bums onto, and possibly one or two testing seats. The lateness of the silly season will end in tears for several as it will be too late to look for a drive with anyone else for those who miss out.

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Old 3 Oct 2002, 00:07 (Ref:394505)   #2
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Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
I must admit Valve, I'm getting concerned for Webber. There are always too many good drivers compared to seats (thus our dissappointment when a pay-driver gets one), but I'm worried Stoddarts game paying with Nikki is going to cost Mark in the end.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 01:20 (Ref:394537)   #3
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Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
Looking at it this way, Ferrari, Williams, McLaren, Renault, Sauber & BAR are all locked.

Being generous, there are (arguably) the following seats remaining:

Jordan (1) Jaguar (2) Minardi (2) Toyota (1) Arrows (2 but with a big question mark)

Total : 8 seats

Given that Sato will probably keep his seat, and Jag will keep one of its drivers, that really leaves 6 seats (4 if Arrows falls through)

Current drivers looking for another ride:

Massa, Irvine or PDLR, Webber, Yoong, Bernoldi, Salo & McNish.

7 current drivers looking at 4 seats.

Other likely hopefuls as VB said : Pizzonia, Wilson, Davidson, Burti, DeMatta & Verstappen.

13 drivers : 4 seats

HURRY UP MARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 02:02 (Ref:394564)   #4
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Well if Jag don't pick up Mark he does have a contract with Minardi for next year so all is not lost for him but staying with them for another year wouldn't do his career that good one would think.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 02:59 (Ref:394580)   #5
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mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It would be sheer travesty if Mark missed out on a decent seat for next year.

I guess no TV coverage caught his pass around the outside of Irvine at Indy.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 03:31 (Ref:394589)   #6
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Mark passed Irvine at Indy?? WOW I knew he drove a great race and was right behind a lot of much faster machinery, and it was an extreme disappointment for me when he pulled into the pits. We were indeed fortunate to get a lot of coverage of this battle during the race - it must rank as one of the best telecasts of the year.
But yeah!! I am also starting to worry about Mark's place at Jaguar. :confused:

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Old 3 Oct 2002, 03:51 (Ref:394596)   #7
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mac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridmac should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Apparently it was on the outside of turn 5! If that's the corner I think it is, that is an awesome pass. This was after he first passed De La Rosa.

I still want to see his pass on Panis exiting the tunnel at Monaco.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 03:53 (Ref:394597)   #8
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Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!Wrex is going for a new lap record!
Hmmm, with further thought with the 6 seats up for grabs (Jordan (1) Jaguar (2) Minardi (2) Toyota (1)) I'd like to think Sato, Massa, Irvine & Webber will stay in F1.

That leaves PDLR, Yoong, Bernoldi, Salo, McNish, Pizzonia, Wilson, Davidson, Burti, DeMatta & Verstappen going after 2 seats.

Verstappen to Minardi. 1 seat

If Arrows returns, Bernoldi should get a ride.

So, PDLR, Yoong, Salo, McNish, Pizzonia, Wilson, Davidson, Burti & DeMatta going after 1 or 2 seats.

My head hurts.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 04:08 (Ref:394607)   #9
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McNish might get a role as test driver at Jaguar. I'm hoping anyway. Yoong might saty on at Minardi as test driver, and looking at this lot, Frank reckons that Pizzonia has a great futuer in F1, so he might get a test drive somewhere.


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Old 3 Oct 2002, 06:36 (Ref:394662)   #10
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f1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridf1manoz should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
That is why the cap on teams is wrong. F1 should be allowing more teams, as long as they can prove their worthiness, so that these talented drivers get the rides they deserve.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 08:05 (Ref:394702)   #11
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Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think Webber will be OK at Jag, he's supposed to have signed a letter of intent - I guess we all know the value of that.....

Also think that Pedro DLR will find what goes around comes around, as he is booted out of the 2nd seat despite a contract (a la Burti). Lauda know's he's in the last chance saloon with Ford now, and needs to have to quick drivers out their to get the best out of the car. Pedro's done himself no favours playing the diplomat and not blaming the car, when it was clearly totally wrong - so even if irvine stays, I believe there is still a 2nd seat up for grabs.

I don't think we shall see Arrow's back, by the time somebody has crunched all the numbers and worked out if it's viable, it will be too late for 2003. The proposed US team's plans seem a bit vauge and bold to be turned into a reality in 2003. So the teams will remain pretty much as is, I reckon.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 09:43 (Ref:394752)   #12
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JR Ewing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Why is everyone so pro-Mark Webber?
He's done OK but not that special. Nor was he special in F3000.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not anti-him but I can't see why he's any better than others out there??
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 11:15 (Ref:394824)   #13
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enemy-ace should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I wouldn't consider myself pro-webber, but I am pro-jaguar, and I think Webber is the best option for Jag right now. I think he is an intelligent, consistent, quick driver with some good testing background. Somebody who could be a good lead driver. Let's face it, Jag's problems won't be solved by just a good driver, but Webber I think would provide some intelligent enthusiasm to help them move in the right direction. What they don't need is a self-interested, over-paid, over-rated career No.2 like Irvine bringing them down.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 11:18 (Ref:394827)   #14
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Originally posted by JR Ewing
Why is everyone so pro-Mark Webber?
Posts From: Brisbane, Sydney, Queensland, Billabong etc.

Aussies get behind their man (quite right too).

I didn't see his pass on Irvine, but didn't he pass because Irvine got the cornwer wrong? I think Irvine repassed within a couple of laps.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 11:35 (Ref:394838)   #15
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EERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridEERO should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I'm going to be pessimistic here, but I think the actual outcome may be for the best.

I suspect that Arrows is History. Given the events of the last few months, their hold on a place in the Concorde is tenuous. I also am very doubtful that Minardi will survive.

I disagree about Sato, I think he'll be out of a ride. Despite EJ's protestations, the loss of the Honda engines jeopardizes Sato's place in the team. The chances of satisfying B&H by bringing Irvine on board will almost certainly brig the Swerve back to Jordan.

PDLR is confirmed at Jaguar for 2003, (though we know what a contract is worth to Lauda)

In my estimation, there are two seats up for grabs; 1 at Jaguar, 1 at Toyota.

Webber, Verstappen, Bernoldi, Salo, McNish, Pizzonia, Wilson, Davidson, Burti & DeMatta going after 1 or 2 seats.

Irve to Jordan, Sato out of F1, And Yoong to the States.


The only real hope and I think it will come true, is that teams will be allowed to run three cars next year. 18 car grids are too thin.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 12:30 (Ref:394869)   #16
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trabant should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
... hopefuls and wishfulls will include Pizzonia, Wilson, Yoong, Davidson, Wurz, Gene, Badoer, Burti, ......

and what about Tomas Enge ? Czech press news are NOT optimistic but I believe he still has a chance to occupy some seat in F1 especially in Jordan.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 12:43 (Ref:394878)   #17
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Originally posted by EERO

I disagree about Sato, I think he'll be out of a ride. Despite EJ's protestations, the loss of the Honda engines jeopardizes Sato's place in the team. The chances of satisfying B&H by bringing Irvine on board will almost certainly bring the Swerve back to Jordan.

Although Autosport this morning are reporting that B&H 'will not increase its funding dramativally next year, even if it does get the team to hire a British driver'- given that this is in an article speculating that the DHL money may yet be bound for Sauber, then EJ might be looking for someone who comes with a big bag of cash for the second seat

Even at a reduced salary, Irv isn't going to be particularly cheap, and if his presence doesn't get B&H to stump up any more money, then would Jordan be able to afford him.....?
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 12:45 (Ref:394880)   #18
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JR Ewing should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Enge - nobody is likely to want to be associated with him now. It is very unfortunate but what sponsor would accept him?? Sportscars, I think.

Like I said, Webber has been workmanlike but no more.
What can he bring that Irvine can't? Irvine may be on the down slope but there is NO substitute for experience. In my opinion they'll keep Irv and replace PMDLR with either Pizzonia or Webber.....but what do I know?

Last edited by JR Ewing; 3 Oct 2002 at 12:49.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 12:50 (Ref:394885)   #19
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Originally posted by EERO


The only real hope and I think it will come true, is that teams will be allowed to run three cars next year. 18 car grids are too thin.
3-car teams would certainly bring the grid size back up, but I don't know if they'd do much for the actual quality of racing- apart from the potential for result manipulation (just imagine what Todt & Brawn could manage with 3 cars at their disposal...) and team orders, I can't help thinking that given a situation like we have now with one team dominant, the prospect of that team (and I'm not taking a shot at Ferrari here- a succession of McLaren 1-2-3 finishes sounds just as bad...) regularly filling the whole podium sounds like it could be pretty depressing...
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 13:10 (Ref:394899)   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by trabant
... hopefuls and wishfulls will include Pizzonia, Wilson, Yoong, Davidson, Wurz, Gene, Badoer, Burti, ......

and what about Tomas Enge ? Czech press news are NOT optimistic but I believe he still has a chance to occupy some seat in F1 especially in Jordan.
I think Tomas Enge's chances just went up in smoke.


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Old 3 Oct 2002, 13:58 (Ref:394935)   #21
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trabant should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Enge - nobody is likely to want to be associated with him now. It is very unfortunate but what sponsor would accept him??
.
.
.
I think Tomas Enge's chances just went up in smoke.


Enge's sponsor could be some organization of legalization marihuana .

But seriously, his driving skills are equal to M. Webber aren't they.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 17:11 (Ref:395045)   #22
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NiceGuyEddie should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Jaguar need to go with Pizzonia.
Toyota probably goes with DaMatta.

That is two seats filled.

Minardi will be stuck with a third rate Cosworth-engine so they will be happy to hold on to Webber and anybody who is willing to pay for the second seat. Ofcourse we all hope that Justin Wilson will raise the cash.

I expect Irvine to choose for Jaguar after they raised their performances, and Sato seems pretty save at Jordan.
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 21:38 (Ref:395242)   #23
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CleanTone should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Minardi will come up with 2 surprise drivers, 1 probably with the dough. Tayota has signed Da Matta. My count is:
Jordan (1): Irvine(likely), Sato(almoust out, maybe if he wins in Japan)
Jaguar (2): Webber, no idea, although de la Rosa is under contract, Maybe Pizzonia or Castroneves(traitor)
Minardi(2): Yoong already has a test seat
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Old 3 Oct 2002, 22:14 (Ref:395274)   #24
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JonesF1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
If only this would happen...
Jordan-Sato, Irvine.
Jaguar-Fisichella, Webber.
Toyota-Pizzonia, DeMatta.
McLaren-Kimi, Wurz.
Minardi-Davidson, Burti.
Arrows-Bernoldi, Enge.
And of course Yoong will be a pay astronaut for the Russian space program.
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Old 4 Oct 2002, 00:47 (Ref:395350)   #25
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Jaguar ......................Castroneves(traitor)
I'd love to see Helio in F1, but don't think it will be with Jag, wasn't the supposed "test" cancelled or something?
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