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Old 21 May 2018, 21:11 (Ref:3823842)   #1
NaBUru38
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The future of motorsport in Britain

http://www.sportspromedia.com/quick_...david-richards

MSA chariman David Richards made some interesting claims.

On grassroots racing:

Quote:
There are a reduced number of people participating in MSA events in this country, especially in unregulated corporate kart racing. There’s a high level of participation in other forms of unregulated motorsport -track-days, for example- but we’ve created too much bureaucracy at the grassroots level of the sport, and too much cost for participants at that level.

We’ve got to look at this entire level of grassroots motorsport and try and find ways of reducing the burden of bureaucracy, legislation and cost, and open it up to more people, and be far more embracing of other elements of motorsport that today perhaps traditionalists have felt to be outside our scope.
On karting

Quote:
Historically, or today, if you wanted to do motor racing as a youngster, you’d end up going and buying yourself a crash helmet and a set of overalls and a go-kart and off you go to a kart track.

But there are some very good corporate kart tracks around the country that are well-managed, well-run and very safe, where you can just turn up and pay a modest amount of money and just have a go.

But we must not just automatically assume our whole purpose of being is to create Formula One drivers. Our purpose of being, in my view, is to create fun for people to go and participate in motorsport.
On relevancy:

Quote:
If you look at car manufacturers today, their primary focus is going to be around electrification, around autonomous driving, and around the environment. And so we have to start to think to ourselves, how do we make our motorsport more relevant to car manufacturers and to the buying public? And this is an ongoing task.
On diversity:

Quote:
It’s quite illogical that we have a sport in which men and women can compete on absolutely equal terms - and yet we don’t appeal to women.

Women only make up five per cent of our licence-holders. And if you look at universities as well, there is a far smaller percentage of women doing engineering degrees.
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Old 21 May 2018, 21:31 (Ref:3823845)   #2
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interesting = revolutionary.
God bless him if
a/ he believes what he says, and
b/ he does something about it
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Old 22 May 2018, 15:53 (Ref:3823976)   #3
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A good friend of mine had a meeting with Dave Richards reference to Kart racing within the msa, upon entering Daves office he said words to the effect of how long have I got and Daves answer was as long as you would like and he was talking to Dave for over 3 hours and he got the impression that the right man is steering the ship for once,fingers crossed eh
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Old 22 May 2018, 17:58 (Ref:3824013)   #4
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Sounds good. Obviously I would support anything that promotes doing it for fun rather than only being interested in anything that is a ladder or professional. Even the fun stuff supports a great industry.
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Old 25 May 2018, 09:18 (Ref:3824516)   #5
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I would support anything that promotes doing it for fun rather than only being interested in anything that is a ladder or professional. Even the fun stuff supports a great industry.
Very much this.

From my point of view the MSA spends too much time (and money) on 'professional' motorsport and their 'ladder' pushing people onwards and upwards. More time and effort on grass roots motorsport please. Less changes to regs that just add cost for very little (if any benefit).
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Old 25 May 2018, 09:58 (Ref:3824523)   #6
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There is a philosophical view that doing it for fun is inherently the better reason.

However purely for an economical point of view it would be interesting to see whether amateur or professional brings in more money. It is hard to define which is which. I suspect professional just due to F1 and the sheer number of jobs and cash involved, but I may be wrong as there is a lot of amateur racing if you think about all disciplines and ways to get on track or off track Motorsport.
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Old 25 May 2018, 21:14 (Ref:3824646)   #7
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We need to remember that the MSA is a totally self appointed body - albeit a long time ago - but they have no God given "right" to be the UK governing body.

Karting for instance is in rude health, even if MSA regulated owner driver racing is struggling. I'm down in the West country today, at a place Jules Mini will know well, and there will be a great non-MSA kart race with over 100 drivers having a great and safe time. Last week down here was a big national one-make kart series that operates outside the MSA.

In cars, there's a track day company running its own sprint series. None of the huge oval scene is governed by the MSA.

All of which begs the question: Just what is the MSA *for*??????

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Old 25 May 2018, 21:53 (Ref:3824650)   #8
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I have no major problem with the MSA. They can go OTT sometimes, but the sport does need a regulatory body and most of what they do is good.

Although I like the existence of your other examples.
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Old 12 Feb 2019, 16:00 (Ref:3883563)   #9
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Excuse me for reviving this topic, but are there any sources for tech news about 750 Formula or Bikesports (except their forums). I'm really fed up with all that BoP, standardisation and marketing stuff in international racing. But I haven't found any fresh conversations about these classes (their technical side). Are they sooooo special that almost nobody (aside from actual racers) is interested to talk about?
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Old 13 Feb 2019, 08:06 (Ref:3883711)   #10
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Excuse me for reviving this topic, but are there any sources for tech news about 750 Formula or Bikesports (except their forums). I'm really fed up with all that BoP, standardisation and marketing stuff in international racing. But I haven't found any fresh conversations about these classes (their technical side). Are they sooooo special that almost nobody (aside from actual racers) is interested to talk about?
Not "special" as such, rather the equivalent of non League football: only of interest to those who are involved, either as players, organisers, officials, the community around it and the occasional enthusiast.

Look at the majority of club motorsport meetings these days. How many spectators do you see who aren't one of the above?

The clubs and series themselves have their own online presences, whether on their own forum or Facebook, and that's where most of the chat happens.
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Old 15 Feb 2019, 07:34 (Ref:3884320)   #11
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andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Excuse me for reviving this topic, but are there any sources for tech news about 750 Formula or Bikesports (except their forums). I'm really fed up with all that BoP, standardisation and marketing stuff in international racing. But I haven't found any fresh conversations about these classes (their technical side). Are they sooooo special that almost nobody (aside from actual racers) is interested to talk about?
Try the 750mc FB page, I am afraid.
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Old 15 Feb 2019, 19:30 (Ref:3884461)   #12
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helgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridhelgi should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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The clubs and series themselves have their own online presences, whether on their own forum or Facebook, and that's where most of the chat happens.
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Try the 750mc FB page, I am afraid.

Thanks for the advice. It's logical that this type of racing is popular only among competitors as there's almost no media to cover it. To say the truth, I won't search for it if there're still constructors' championships at the international level like it was in 00's. Today there are only F1 and Super GT left with some freedom for constructors, so I had to search for some other classes to watch. As for lack of media - sometimes it's even better that all the tech information is split into small bits and you have to search it on your own.
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Old 16 Feb 2019, 19:38 (Ref:3884666)   #13
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I gave up on MSA type racing 20 or so years ago, and would never dream of competing in any of thier series,.

They suck the life out of a lot of things, are rich beyond dreams and are over sensitive to situations I am afraid.

Why are we the only country with the insane level of over moderation regarding spectators on rallies for instance, when you look at the rest of Europe, I know why now, but initially? Cmon for Gods sake, insurance? Give me a break, that could be overcome so easily if they stepped in and helped out.

they do good yes, but for me they are inept, hopeless and utterly out of date.

To ace in anything I need to join clubs, take an utterly pointless and pathetic test even to do bloody drag racing, (basically to feed the coffers even more and keep the over involved insurers at bay), join a club, that doesn't mean I can always race where I want,m so have to join other clubs, pay exorbitant entry fees and be dictated to by people that have no idea what they are doing.

Example: Single venue rally at Snetterton today. All crews HAVE to take a spare wheel, why? So Palmer doesn't have to re lay any asphalt, they have to take yellow jackets with them on stage, he entire event is in the sodding daylight? It's craziness and ruining the sport on every level that this man is allowed to dictate tripe like this for events at his venues, I would tell him to stick it up his wotsit and find another venue.
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 16:48 (Ref:3885301)   #14
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Example: Single venue rally at Snetterton today. All crews HAVE to take a spare wheel, why? So Palmer doesn't have to re lay any asphalt, they have to take yellow jackets with them on stage, he entire event is in the sodding daylight? It's craziness and ruining the sport on every level that this man is allowed to dictate tripe like this for events at his venues, I would tell him to stick it up his wotsit and find another venue.
Spare wheel is not just an MSV circuit thing - lots of events stipulate stopping to change a wheel in the event of a puncture (the Clacton closed road event for example). We have to carry a spill kit too for most events now. Hi-viz - does seem to be overkill, but a couple of hi-viz vests aren't going to be the make or break for anyone between competing or not.

"Find another venue" - be my guest. Rallying is losing venues, new ones are hard to come by and if getting them / keeping them means carrying a spare wheel then it's a small price to pay. We've had other stipulations beyond the 'puncture' one - "keep off the grass" at Marham and "keep off the daffodils" at Goodwood for example - again it's a condition of using the venue so you live with it. The only part I don't quite understand is why a rally competitor gets billed for damage caused to the circuit but a circuit racer doesn't?

The circuit rally events are a good platform for raising awareness of the sport and may get more people interested / involved. Certainly having events at MSV circuits has raised the profile of club level rallying - there were people at the Brands rally that had never been to a rally before, they were there because they go to touring cars and had seen the rally being promoted by MSV so came along to have a look. That's got to be positive for the sport surely?
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 20:27 (Ref:3885410)   #15
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Spare wheel is not just an MSV circuit thing - lots of events stipulate stopping to change a wheel in the event of a puncture (the Clacton closed road event for example). We have to carry a spill kit too for most events now. Hi-viz - does seem to be overkill, but a couple of hi-viz vests aren't going to be the make or break for anyone between competing or not.

"Find another venue" - be my guest. Rallying is losing venues, new ones are hard to come by and if getting them / keeping them means carrying a spare wheel then it's a small price to pay. We've had other stipulations beyond the 'puncture' one - "keep off the grass" at Marham and "keep off the daffodils" at Goodwood for example - again it's a condition of using the venue so you live with it. The only part I don't quite understand is why a rally competitor gets billed for damage caused to the circuit but a circuit racer doesn't?

The circuit rally events are a good platform for raising awareness of the sport and may get more people interested / involved. Certainly having events at MSV circuits has raised the profile of club level rallying - there were people at the Brands rally that had never been to a rally before, they were there because they go to touring cars and had seen the rally being promoted by MSV so came along to have a look. That's got to be positive for the sport surely?
The circuit racing clubs do get billed for damage and its up to the clubs whether they pass that on to the competitor.

Agree on the crowds - I have seen far far bigger crowds watching the circuit rallies at Oulton, Donington and Snetterton than watch club racing, or indeed any national racing outside BTCC.
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 20:59 (Ref:3885423)   #16
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
So, lose the crowds on circuit races, if no-one goes to watch it.

Most rallies are free, MSV only makes you pay to pay for a championship, and they were always cheap initially until Palmer realised how much money he can make.

There were a few people watching at Snett this weekend gone.

As for the spare tyres, the road events I can understand, why should the council have to pay for damage, but on tracks, it's a private venue FFS, and the stages are also designed to be miles away from people and any obstacles, woe betide anyone hits a fence.

I get it I really do, but dumbing it down to such a level is not going to appease speccys for long.

And I have seen lots of footage from Riponian and Cambrian, not much evidence of pens on either, about time this was all dropped and a pass introduced for poeple who spectate regularly and understand the risks, allowing them to go anywhere within reason
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Old 19 Feb 2019, 23:30 (Ref:3885443)   #17
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Unfortunately the increase in the need to apply restrictions on spectators on rallies is directly related to the increase in the number of people who don't have sufficient common sense to keep themselves safely out of the way.
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Old 20 Feb 2019, 00:24 (Ref:3885449)   #18
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chunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchunder should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
It is mainly due to what happened in Scotland a few years ago and the MSA cacking themselves as a result.

Some system of training and then banding would easily sort this out, I would happily pay for a band or pas that would allow access to stages in receipt of the required training and awareness.

But no, treat everyone the same as usual, a few were idiots so in the MSA's eyes you are all are. Genius
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Old 11 May 2019, 09:52 (Ref:3903115)   #19
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Too many series with too few entries doesn't help. I'm at Oulton now watching the grand total of 6 TCR/TCT cars go round!

MX5's barely in double figures, same with the FF1600s. Only the Civic EP3s have a full grid.

My Son is coming along later, bought up on a diet of blancpain (40+ car grids) and F1. I doubt he'll be impressed with today's grassroots offering.

I understand that combining series isn't as simple as it sounds, but there must be a better answer than this?
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Old 11 May 2019, 15:46 (Ref:3903164)   #20
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Too many series with too few entries doesn't help. I'm at Oulton now watching the grand total of 6 TCR/TCT cars go round!

MX5's barely in double figures, same with the FF1600s. Only the Civic EP3s have a full grid.

My Son is coming along later, bought up on a diet of blancpain (40+ car grids) and F1. I doubt he'll be impressed with today's grassroots offering.

I understand that combining series isn't as simple as it sounds, but there must be a better answer than this?
You need to pick your meetings better - read this weeks column by Marcus Pye in Autosport waxing lyricsl about CSCCs recent Silverstone meeting.
And if F1 is the benchmark for your Son, then its a pretty low bar if you know where to look.
If Oulton is your local circuit CSCC are the May Babk Holiday saturday and monday. Enjoy.
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Old 12 May 2019, 05:48 (Ref:3903252)   #21
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I was back doing my hack role at CSCC and , as said , if you want to see how club racing can work , go to a CSCC meeting. Huge entry and simply extraordinary diversity of cars , from Frogeye Sprite , via Skyline and 911, to Cortinas and Sevens.
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Old 12 May 2019, 11:54 (Ref:3903293)   #22
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Unfortunately the three club meetings running over the UK this weekend (one BARC, two BRSCC) are showing absolutely the worst of British motor racing. The entries across the board are terrible, even championships with 30+ car grids have dropped into the low teens.

That's just the nature of the sport, some championships rise and others fall. The one consistency is that there's too much on offer and that's only going to get worse.

There's always a reason for a championship not working but I feel many organisers live in blissful ignorance, or just don't care.
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Old 12 May 2019, 16:02 (Ref:3903339)   #23
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Unfortunately the three club meetings running over the UK this weekend (one BARC, two BRSCC) are showing absolutely the worst of British motor racing.
Without wishing to dilute the above point, MSVR's Snetterton meeting this weekend has some pretty reasonable/good grids (although of the MINI grids is pretty dire). In respect of the BARC meeting at Brands, it is perhaps also worth noting that the meeting was due to feature the opening rounds of the (needless) Jaguar Series Elite. With two entries on the books, the races and practice were relegated to being 'exhibition races'. In essence, it is a lot of track time devoted to few cars, without official timing.

In addition to the sparse nature of some of the grids, a further concern is the lack of marshals at events. Since this season started, I've received an email every couple of days from one organising club, or another, highlighting shortages at their events. It wasn't that long ago that such pleas for help were pretty rare, and generally not this early in the year.
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Old 12 May 2019, 17:57 (Ref:3903352)   #24
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There appears to be no will at Motorsport UK to cull under performing championships. They charge for championship permits and seem only to happy to keep taking the money without looking after the best interests of motorsport.

They need to force poorly supported series to merge or be culled. Spectators are not going to pay hard earned money to watch 5 cars go around a track, I won't call that a race. Marshals don't want to give up their time and at their own expense to stand trackside for poorly supported events, often in poor weather. I know I used to be a marshal and soon started to look at entry lists and attend only events I felt were worthwhile.

The organising clubs seem to be unwilling to cull poor championships instead quite happy to fill a race card with low grid races and keep taking entry fees. They should be amalgamating grids, there are too many one makes series that could be put together with individual classes, I'm sure drivers would rather be in a race of 25-30 other cars rather than competing against a single figure grid.

Motorsport UK has make noises about taking action against this sort of problem in the past but have still failed to do so.
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Old 13 May 2019, 17:49 (Ref:3903537)   #25
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There appears to be no will at Motorsport UK to cull under performing championships. They charge for championship permits and seem only to happy to keep taking the money without looking after the best interests of motorsport.

They need to force poorly supported series to merge or be culled. Spectators are not going to pay hard earned money to watch 5 cars go around a track, I won't call that a race. Marshals don't want to give up their time and at their own expense to stand trackside for poorly supported events, often in poor weather. I know I used to be a marshal and soon started to look at entry lists and attend only events I felt were worthwhile.

The organising clubs seem to be unwilling to cull poor championships instead quite happy to fill a race card with low grid races and keep taking entry fees. They should be amalgamating grids, there are too many one makes series that could be put together with individual classes, I'm sure drivers would rather be in a race of 25-30 other cars rather than competing against a single figure grid.

Motorsport UK has make noises about taking action against this sort of problem in the past but have still failed to do so.
Totally agree. And Andy97, I'm aware that alternatives are on offer, I've been an Oulton regular for most of my 44 years on earth And I've seen many ups and downs in that time, think Aurora AFX, Porsche cup a few years ago, some of the AMOC events in recent times, Zetec FFords, etc, etc.

The point I'm making is that, for somebody new to grassroots motorsport, a racecard full of empty grids is a massive turn off. These lessons have all been learned before so instead of re-learning them why don't the clubs, organising and sanctioning bodies work together and stop it happening?

P.s. Just for the record my Son ended up going with a friend and stuck it out all day but the first thing he said to me when he came in was "you wouldn't believe the TCR/TCT grid, 7 cars, why do they hold races with so few entries?" ME: "well you know how it is Son, racing is expensive, and they're probably hoping to grow the grid later in the year". SON: "Mmmm, I don't understand why they don't combine the grids with another championship?". ME: "Mmmm, yeah"
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