2007 Australian Sports & GT Championship

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chucky

It's a month to the fist round of the The Australian Sports/GT Intermarque Championship. How long 'til we see there entry list.

They have, what? 60-70 cars by now wouldn't they, Silver?

Now Chucky -how would you know that number ? To answer your question-- the entries will appear as they arrive on the website( as soon as processing can be done-- usually a few days but could be a little longer). I would not be too sceptical if I was you - there is a lot of dissatisfaction with GT and the skewering of APDC was very distastefull. How can you-- who does know more than most be so aquiescing to those at the C---s organisation.
An observation of many comments here re hostility -- how is it that many of you have no interest in all the competitors that were displaced and left no place to run have no sympathy? Have you no interest in Sports and Gt cars in general?

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

So a point of view that does not fit your view of the world should not be heard.What a joke. Those associated with the GT series have persistently published"wish list" entries as a fact.Much discussion ensues about competitors that were never going to be there . What purpose does that serve-- the answer is that it masks the inadequecies of the concept,and is constantly used by the apologists for the GT series to justify the chosen path.
What is so hard about publishing an entry list? Entries closed long ago, so why attack me for pointing it out.

Silver3, I have not suggested that your point of view should not be heard nor was I attacking your point of view. I simply asked which GT2 cars had been excluded from the GT series (and acknowledging that if that had been the case when othere GT2 cars were included, I could understand why people would be upset with category management).

I am not an apologist for the series, I am just interested in it and the cars/drivers that race.

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

An observation of many comments here re hostility -- how is it that many of you have no interest in all the competitors that were displaced and left no place to run have no sympathy? Have you no interest in Sports and Gt cars in general?

This is the issue I was querying previously. I wasn't aware that some cars were displaced and left nowhere to run and if they were I could understand why people would be very upset and even hostile (but my previous query about where was all this hostility coming from was apparently a poor attempt to take some heat out of the discussion).

I have a great deal of interest in sports and GT cars in general. I have been a supporter of state level sports car racing in NSW, QLD and Vic and am a paid up member of PSCRAA so I am not on here to champion the GT series at the expense of prod sports. My previous comments about wondering why Huglin/Simonsen preferred to run at state level and not GT series were not meant to be a slight on the state level competition. It was a question of why they didn't do both like a fair number of the other GT competitors do?

[alfa_156]

So where is Peter "Can't" Hackett's new Lamborghini Gallardo?

The picture in Autofiction had fluids widdling on the ground from the front end... did the driver wee himself or did the car?

[Chucky]

He's lucky it didn't catch fire like the rest of them!

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

This is the issue I was querying previously. I wasn't aware that some cars were displaced and left nowhere to run and if they were I could understand why people would be very upset and even hostile (but my previous query about where was all this hostility coming from was apparently a poor attempt to take some heat out of the discussion).

I have a great deal of interest in sports and GT cars in general. I have been a supporter of state level sports car racing in NSW, QLD and Vic and am a paid up member of PSCRAA so I am not on here to champion the GT series at the expense of prod sports. My previous comments about wondering why Huglin/Simonsen preferred to run at state level and not GT series were not meant to be a slight on the state level competition. It was a question of why they didn't do both like a fair number of the other GT competitors do?

I have been at pains not to repeat comments(facts) stated at length on the 2006 thread( which bt the way moderator GTR chose to change the original thread name from a general sportscar thread to the specific) . The facy is that the series(GT) had an ill conceived birth-- far to many were excluded and then the"mates" exceptions started. Far to many Porsche models excuded(by definition or handicapped out) . The Huglin Ferrari was out/in/out etc then castrated out. Etc etc. outrageous costs all equalled very poor support and numbers etc-- all the time the management pumping up cars that were never going to appear. I can go and on and on and on. On top of that between the promoters and Cams the State based associations for Sportscars were prevented from running their 1 Hour races as a series on the basis that it would detract from the lovechild GT series. Forget the fact the large(huge) majority of cars were not eligible for GT.
The Huglin Ferrari team wants nothing more than a fair go.Personally the best car with the best driver winning presents no problem to me.They were not treated fairly in GT last year(or year before).
Out of that the new series was born.It will be interesting to see how many here rationaise it's failings!

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by EfiOz

It read completely differently to me, hence my observation that abusing illicit drugs before mid day may be affecting your judgement!

It all makes sense now.

Well, I am an arts student. I guess I should be doing those things before lunch....

Just watched the 2006 British GT Championship review with my uncle. man, that stuff rocks all sorts of stuff. Roll on some of the new cars!

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I have been at pains not to repeat comments(facts) stated at length on the 2006 thread( which bt the way moderator GTR chose to change the original thread name from a general sportscar thread to the specific) . The facy is that the series(GT) had an ill conceived birth-- far to many were excluded and then the"mates" exceptions started. Far to many Porsche models excuded(by definition or handicapped out) . The Huglin Ferrari was out/in/out etc then castrated out. Etc etc. outrageous costs all equalled very poor support and numbers etc-- all the time the management pumping up cars that were never going to appear. I can go and on and on and on. On top of that between the promoters and Cams the State based associations for Sportscars were prevented from running their 1 Hour races as a series on the basis that it would detract from the lovechild GT series. Forget the fact the large(huge) majority of cars were not eligible for GT.
The Huglin Ferrari team wants nothing more than a fair go.Personally the best car with the best driver winning presents no problem to me.They were not treated fairly in GT last year(or year before).
Out of that the new series was born.It will be interesting to see how many here rationaise it's failings!

Ok, This is not a flame post. It's not sarcasm, it's not me being stupid.

Silver 3, You do seem very negative towards the series, but alot of the things you have posted, when pulled together, make alot of sense.

I am curious as to how you feel this series can prosper, what can change, and what you would do to get ti kicking off the ground. (Ie, scrapping it, iving it a year off, and finding a good sponsor package and allow competitors a year in marquee events to build up a good GT package?)

I ask, as you wouldn't be posting so often if you didn't really have an interest in GT racing, and would like to know where you are coming from (Who knows, the gods of GT Australia might be reading and listen?)

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I have been at pains not to repeat comments(facts) stated at length on the 2006 thread( which bt the way moderator GTR chose to change the original thread name from a general sportscar thread to the specific).

What was stopping you starting a thread about state sportscars or Intermarque challenge or whatever ?

The old thread needed a name change as it stood as " Aussie sportscars series ??? "

Originally Posted by Silver 3

The Huglin Ferrari team wants nothing more than a fair go.Personally the best car with the best driver winning presents no problem to me.They were not treated fairly in GT last year(or year before).

Out of that the new series was born.It will be interesting to see how many here rationaise it's failings!

By no means is it currently perfect which you seem to demand Silver. But coming from where the championship was at the end of 2004 and now at the start of 2007, I think many would except such failings. A move to GT3 regs is going to cut vehicles out however it does solve the big issue that plagued Nations Cup in 03 and 04, which was a non rule book.

[Chucky]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

My previous comments about wondering why Huglin/Simonsen preferred to run at state level and not GT series were not meant to be a slight on the state level competition. It was a question of why they didn't do both like a fair number of the other GT competitors do?

I took that as an indictment of the National series, rather than a slight at the state series.

[Chucky]

I don't think we've ever heard Silver's version of th eperfect world yet. Only his damnation of the present.

The GT Championship is generally going in a good direction. GT3 is an excellent foundation for a championship. But I can't help wandering if it shouldn't have a GT2 class above it to really show some speed.

Or is that verbotten as they say in Stuttgart?

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Chucky

But I can't help wandering if it shouldn't have a GT2 class above it to really show some speed.

That would be awesome. A place for GT2 cars to race unrestricted with both classes having the ability to "win" their respective series. The production sports car series is very successful running different classes in the same race and people generally enjoy the "races within the race". Doesn't the Brit GT series run on that basis with 3 classes, GT2, GT3 and GTC?

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Chucky

I took that as an indictment of the National series, rather than a slight at the state series.

Wasn't really trying to slight either, just observing that I didn't really understand why they wouldn't run in the GT series as well where they would get better competition rather than the thrashings they were handing out at state level.

I know the team felt they were being paritied out of the competition but from memory they won the rounds they competed in and you would have thought they would have been a big chance to win the series if they had been at everything. I'm not having a go at the team as I'm sure there was much more to it than meets the eye and Ted seems like a very nice fellow but as a spectator, you would love to see them in it. Imagine if they had been at Bathurst with the viper, lambo and the front running porsches...

[noaxetogrind]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

I have been at pains not to repeat comments(facts) stated at length on the 2006 thread( which bt the way moderator GTR chose to change the original thread name from a general sportscar thread to the specific) . The facy is that the series(GT) had an ill conceived birth-- far to many were excluded and then the"mates" exceptions started. Far to many Porsche models excuded(by definition or handicapped out) . The Huglin Ferrari was out/in/out etc then castrated out. Etc etc. outrageous costs all equalled very poor support and numbers etc-- all the time the management pumping up cars that were never going to appear. I can go and on and on and on. On top of that between the promoters and Cams the State based associations for Sportscars were prevented from running their 1 Hour races as a series on the basis that it would detract from the lovechild GT series. Forget the fact the large(huge) majority of cars were not eligible for GT.
The Huglin Ferrari team wants nothing more than a fair go.Personally the best car with the best driver winning presents no problem to me.They were not treated fairly in GT last year(or year before).
Out of that the new series was born.It will be interesting to see how many here rationaise it's failings!

Thanks, as I said before I can understand why people would be upset if some cars were excluded and others weren't and there was inconsistency around how they did that. I'm surprised that the promoters would want cars excluded and the fact they did allow GT2 cars to run (albeit under parity) bears this out.

As for the state enduro series, I don't understand why you say it wasn't allowed to run. It certainly ran in 2005, grew in 2006 and is even bigger this year with five rounds. I think 2005 only had two rounds from memory (EC and PI) but I understand the reason they couldn't get more on the programme was to do with date clashes (as opposed to CAMS/GT saying they couldn't run them)? Anyway, looking forward, it seems there is no impediment to the state enduro series. With the GT series only having one endurance round this year at season end, the state enduro series should be bigger than ever as I would guess a lot of the GT competitors will do the state series given its the only real opportunity to get some of this form of racing in.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Chucky

I don't think we've ever heard Silver's version of th eperfect world yet. Only his damnation of the present.

The GT Championship is generally going in a good direction. GT3 is an excellent foundation for a championship. But I can't help wandering if it shouldn't have a GT2 class above it to really show some speed.

Or is that verbotten as they say in Stuttgart?

You guys are starting to get very close to the issues here-- I will try and make comment that may help. I think at length on previous thread.
Porsche position in the understanding is important. FWIW this is really now water under the bridge but it has had a deep and profound effect over the last 3 years on many competitors. The Intermarque series address's many of the issues in relation to GT2 class as they can and will run.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

Thanks, as I said before I can understand why people would be upset if some cars were excluded and others weren't and there was inconsistency around how they did that. I'm surprised that the promoters would want cars excluded and the fact they did allow GT2 cars to run (albeit under parity) bears this out.

As for the state enduro series, I don't understand why you say it wasn't allowed to run. It certainly ran in 2005, grew in 2006 and is even bigger this year with five rounds. I think 2005 only had two rounds from memory (EC and PI) but I understand the reason they couldn't get more on the programme was to do with date clashes (as opposed to CAMS/GT saying they couldn't run them)? Anyway, looking forward, it seems there is no impediment to the state enduro series. With the GT series only having one endurance round this year at season end, the state enduro series should be bigger than ever as I would guess a lot of the GT competitors will do the state series given its the only real opportunity to get some of this form of racing in.

First point- cars were arbitarily excluded and mates made exception for in a hare brained manner of inconsistency-- GT2 cars were made to feel very uncomfortable -to say the least-- and before you generalise that comment -you clearly are not accessing the actual FACTS.
You need to re-read what I said about Enduros and understand the meaning of the words. I stand by exactly what I said .It had absoloutely nothing do to with date clashes.You point out that they happened anyway-- that is correct but you are unaware of the background. If you wish to pm me I will expand.Given the lack of co-operation historically from Cams in relation to the Enduros it is fairly curious that this time is chosen to allow. I wonder if that has anything to do with Intermarque running 1 Hours in it's series.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Senna05

Ok, This is not a flame post. It's not sarcasm, it's not me being stupid.

Silver 3, You do seem very negative towards the series, but alot of the things you have posted, when pulled together, make alot of sense.

I am curious as to how you feel this series can prosper, what can change, and what you would do to get ti kicking off the ground. (Ie, scrapping it, iving it a year off, and finding a good sponsor package and allow competitors a year in marquee events to build up a good GT package?)

I ask, as you wouldn't be posting so often if you didn't really have an interest in GT racing, and would like to know where you are coming from (Who knows, the gods of GT Australia might be reading and listen?)

In reference to your last sentence--- your investment is in your keyboard and signing up here to voice your opinion. My investment and contribution in both dollars,time is very,very substantially greater. I also am in contact with nearly every competitor and potential competitor you could name-- I point this out because I am voicing widespread opinions held by many competitors.When postings appear here that are clearly wrong or off beam it is hard to let that go by without commenting. BTW-- you are entitled to an opinion-- it doesnt make you right.
The first part of your post--- I am past seeing GT go anywhere-- I simply do not care anymore, other than one major issue.While it exists many Sports/GT cars are deprived of program spots so the world can see them.
I can keep pointing out the failings and misrepresentations that eminate from the management of that series and will when they touch the outrageous.
Rather than do that I would prefer that the new series that starts soon that seeks to correct many of the wrongs succeeds.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

What was stopping you starting a thread about state sportscars or Intermarque challenge or whatever ?

The old thread needed a name change as it stood as " Aussie sportscars series ??? "

The point is that when the thread started GT as such did not exist--- so it was intended to be about Sportscar series in general-- not just GT-- so I cannot understand why the change was made.
Nothing stopping me starting athread --that is true.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

That would be awesome. A place for GT2 cars to race unrestricted with both classes having the ability to "win" their respective series. The production sports car series is very successful running different classes in the same race and people generally enjoy the "races within the race". Doesn't the Brit GT series run on that basis with 3 classes, GT2, GT3 and GTC?

Sounds like some good ideas--- very close to what the Australian Sports/GT Intermarque Championship is doing.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by noaxetogrind

Wasn't really trying to slight either, just observing that I didn't really understand why they wouldn't run in the GT series as well where they would get better competition rather than the thrashings they were handing out at state level.

I know the team felt they were being paritied out of the competition but from memory they won the rounds they competed in and you would have thought they would have been a big chance to win the series if they had been at everything. I'm not having a go at the team as I'm sure there was much more to it than meets the eye and Ted seems like a very nice fellow but as a spectator, you would love to see them in it. Imagine if they had been at Bathurst with the viper, lambo and the front running porsches...

They have not had it all their own way and have been beaten a few times .Sponsorship commitments of Alan Simonsons will see them do high profile rounds of Gt,Intermarque and the Victorian Sportscar Championship this year.

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by Chucky

.
The GT Championship is generally going in a good direction. GT3 is an excellent foundation for a championship. But I can't help wandering if it shouldn't have a GT2 class above it to really show some speed.

GT2 does have some awesome machines, but can Australia support a GT2 championship. Some European championships are having a hard time supporting GT2 to a sufficient level, with many competitors turning to GT3.

Would it be worth having 4 GT2 cars out there while the rest of the field to GT3 ?

[Senna05]

Originally Posted by Silver 3

In reference to your last sentence--- your investment is in your keyboard and signing up here to voice your opinion. My investment and contribution in both dollars,time is very,very substantially greater. I also am in contact with nearly every competitor and potential competitor you could name-- I point this out because I am voicing widespread opinions held by many competitors.When postings appear here that are clearly wrong or off beam it is hard to let that go by without commenting. BTW-- you are entitled to an opinion-- it doesnt make you right.
The first part of your post--- I am past seeing GT go anywhere-- I simply do not care anymore, other than one major issue.While it exists many Sports/GT cars are deprived of program spots so the world can see them.
I can keep pointing out the failings and misrepresentations that eminate from the management of that series and will when they touch the outrageous.
Rather than do that I would prefer that the new series that starts soon that seeks to correct many of the wrongs succeeds.

OK, thanks for that post. It makes it a little easier to see where you come from.

And WRT opinions - You are right. None of us have to be right, nor do I accept my place in regards to GT to be right. But, like business, motorsports has no 100% correct answers - only better ones.

New Series - do you mean the eminent GT3 Rules? Or a new series completely?

[racer69]

Originally Posted by D.R.T.

GT2 does have some awesome machines, but can Australia support a GT2 championship. Some European championships are having a hard time supporting GT2 to a sufficient level, with many competitors turning to GT3.

Would it be worth having 4 GT2 cars out there while the rest of the field to GT3 ?

Not even the British GT Championship could sustain GT2, the majority of 2006 was fought out between a single Scuderia Ecosse F430 & a pair of Team LNT Panoz's.

[pete55]

For the GT3 class this year we will have at least 4 Ferrari 430's, one maybe more Corvettes, A Lotus, probably one Lamborghini and quite a few Porsches for a start. That is without knowing what cars a few drivers will be running. I would think that that is the basis for quite a decent field. It is now up to the organizers and the competitors to make it a sucess.

[Silver 3]

Originally Posted by Senna05

OK, thanks for that post. It makes it a little easier to see where you come from.

And WRT opinions - You are right. None of us have to be right, nor do I accept my place in regards to GT to be right. But, like business, motorsports has no 100% correct answers - only better ones.

New Series - do you mean the eminent GT3 Rules? Or a new series completely?

The compromises made were not too smart right from the start.Too many vested interests applying pressure. The new series I refer to is to run on AMRS program and is called the Australian Sports/GT Intermarque Championship. It encompasses virtually every Sports/GT car you can name .It also includes all the Marque Sportscars that have run in Australia.There is still checks and balances on performance so it does not strictly follow GT2 either.The aim is to get a far greater variety of cars racing and be realistic that not all are going to win and get on with it.