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Old 27 Jun 2022, 10:08 (Ref:4117172)   #201
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I don't think that I have seen mention here of Chilton's move on Sutton resulting in Sutton having to have work done on his car in the pits. When my son and I got back from Croft, he found a clip that showed that Sutton gave him plenty of room but Chilton moved right over and clipped the off side rear wheel causing the damage.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 10:12 (Ref:4117173)   #202
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I personally think the racing was better with S2000 regs.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 10:53 (Ref:4117179)   #203
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I disagree about 'painfully slow under acceleration ' - any tin top which laps Croft in the low twenties is very quick indeed .
Cars make their laptimes in different ways. There have been many BTCC cars that are quick on their own but really struggle to race in a pack.

Like I say though it's BTC's problem as other cars with the same engine aren't having the issue.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 11:14 (Ref:4117181)   #204
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I meant to say earlier, that we noticed that on the whole the driving standards, from what we could see at the chicane, was that it was vastly improved on last years antics. Only one or possibly two cars touched the tyre stacks, and they didn't need to be put back into position after each race, although there was far more cars driving straight through bypassing the chicane which I thought ought to be addressed by making the errant cars have to slow down as they do at Oulton for example.

That would stop too many drivers attempting to go two or three wide through the chicane, although on at least one occasion two cars made it through unscathed as they gave each other respect and therefore proper racing room.

Oh, and to add, they didn't remove the tyre stacks for the F4s this year, and they all managed to navigate it although I think something happened a little was after they went through which caused the red flag.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 11:28 (Ref:4117182)   #205
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The last season I remember driving standards being so bad was 2012. Then in 2013 they thankfully improved and have improved gradually each season, so that we don’t see any push to pass anymore. I used to cringe a lot at that, now I can trust the drivers not to do that. Of course we still get the occasional meeting where driving standards go down, like Oulton last year, but overall driving standards are top notch
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 11:37 (Ref:4117185)   #206
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Only one or possibly two cars touched the tyre stacks, and they didn't need to be put back into position after each race,
It was mentioned during qualifying that the tyre stacks had been put in a slightly different position this year. They had been moved back a little away from the edge of the track to give drivers more of a margin of error.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 12:56 (Ref:4117194)   #207
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Going back to qualifying, it has to be remembered that drivers go into qualifying with championship boost.
If that genuinely affects the pace, then you are hindered in your starting position for races 1&2.

Cook's best was only good enough for 20th. If his 2nd best was similar in comparison, then no matter how far up the field he made it in R1, he'd be bumped back down again.

What if a team struggle to get a time in during qualifying, or have a mechanical issue or early session incident. They've lost all chance of a decent R1 or R2 result.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 14:29 (Ref:4117202)   #208
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I personally think the racing was better with S2000 regs.
amen

2006-2009 were awesome seasons

actually recently watched some of the season reviews for those and bloody awesome grids and racing not the sh1t we have today

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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:19 (Ref:4117214)   #209
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Going back to qualifying, it has to be remembered that drivers go into qualifying with championship boost.
If that genuinely affects the pace, then you are hindered in your starting position for races 1&2.

Cook's best was only good enough for 20th. If his 2nd best was similar in comparison, then no matter how far up the field he made it in R1, he'd be bumped back down again.

What if a team struggle to get a time in during qualifying, or have a mechanical issue or early session incident. They've lost all chance of a decent R1 or R2 result.
In my opinion boost should be equal to all in qualifying and that would eliminate the problem.
As for the second part of your post, I think a better solution (than taking 2nd best time for R2) would be to have two separate quali sessions. This could possibly decrease the risk you talk about (and if someone is unable to start in the second session then, well, that's part of it) and also could mix up the order nicely. AussieSupercars for exampl show that you can have two quali sessions on the same day and results can still vary quite significantly - BTCC would be no exception with the closeness of the grid. I think it'd serve the purpose.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:20 (Ref:4117215)   #210
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amen

2006-2009 were awesome seasons

actually recently watched some of the season reviews for those and bloody awesome grids and racing not the sh1t we have today
Then why bother and watch this "sh1t"?
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:22 (Ref:4117217)   #211
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Then why bother and watch this "sh1t"?
no better alternative as the "others" are even worse
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:40 (Ref:4117223)   #212
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amen

2006-2009 were awesome seasons

actually recently watched some of the season reviews for those and bloody awesome grids and racing not the sh1t we have today
I agree that 2006-2009 were awesome seasons, 2009 in particular was fantastic, but as a whole 2016-19 were even better, in my opinion, up there with the early 90s as the absolute peak of British Touring Cars. 2020 was a slight downgrade, in a large part due to covid, then 2021 admittedly was a bad season, in my opinion the worst since 2005. 2022 started very well with Donington and Brands Hatch being excellent weekends but the last three rounds have had duller racing, probably due to the hybrid being so ineffective, and I also think we are missing the option tyre.

For next year I would like to see the return of the option tyre, a return of success ballast but altered so there is ballast in qualifying and race two only and nothing in races one and three, and the hybrid available for all drivers for 15 seconds per lap, maybe only on half the laps so it can have an effect on the racing if it is more powerful next year, but is no longer used for performance balancing. I think that will get the BTCC back to 2016-19 level of excitement without a return to poor driving standards. Although I will miss Plato and Neal.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:41 (Ref:4117224)   #213
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no better alternative as the "others" are even worse

Then accept it as it is, because just just carping on it on these pages and criticising how TOCA goes about it's business is really just wasting bandwidth - Alan Gow is never going to change things to the way that you want things in a year of Sundays.

As has just been said, instead of getting frustrated about "how bad it is" find something else to occupy your time rather that just posting negative comments so much. That is why I stopped watching F1, because I no longer found it enjoyable as a pastime and now other things that give me enjoyment take up the time that I would have spent on something that I no longer found to be to my liking.

No doubt I'll be slapped down for the above comments, but I've got a broad back.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 15:55 (Ref:4117226)   #214
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Then accept it as it is, because just just carping on it on these pages and criticising how TOCA goes about it's business is really just wasting bandwidth - Alan Gow is never going to change things to the way that you want things in a year of Sundays.

As has just been said, instead of getting frustrated about "how bad it is" find something else to occupy your time rather that just posting negative comments so much. That is why I stopped watching F1, because I no longer found it enjoyable as a pastime and now other things that give me enjoyment take up the time that I would have spent on something that I no longer found to be to my liking.

No doubt I'll be slapped down for the above comments, but I've got a broad back.
you use toilet paper right ? now if the producer of toilet paper start doing lower and lower quality product and the consumer don't complain about it and just "accept" it as is guess what the producers have no interest or desire to improve the product !!!! on the contrary it wil stay same low or they will make it even lower standard if they can get away with !! what I say can apply to nearly every product

this defeatist mindset to "accept" an inferior product is the main reason while the quality of many products has gone down the hill over the decades
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:00 (Ref:4117228)   #215
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Then accept it as it is, because just just carping on it on these pages and criticising how TOCA goes about it's business is really just wasting bandwidth - Alan Gow is never going to change things to the way that you want things in a year of Sundays.

As has just been said, instead of getting frustrated about "how bad it is" find something else to occupy your time rather that just posting negative comments so much. That is why I stopped watching F1, because I no longer found it enjoyable as a pastime and now other things that give me enjoyment take up the time that I would have spent on something that I no longer found to be to my liking.

No doubt I'll be slapped down for the above comments, but I've got a broad back.
Agree wholeheartedly, F1 is something I can't be bothered with anymore
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:05 (Ref:4117230)   #216
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you use toilet paper right ? now if the producer of toilet paper start doing lower and lower quality product and the consumer don't complain about it and just "accept" it as is guess what the producers have no interest or desire to improve the product !!!! on the contrary it wil stay same low or they will make it even lower standard if they can get away with !! what I say can apply to nearly every product

this defeatist mindset to "accept" an inferior product is the main reason while the quality of many products has gone down the hill over the decades

So can we assume that you have written or spoken to Alan Gow about how rubbish his product is, then? I would love to see what his reply was.

Oh, and I think that you answer was a load of "crap" to use your analogy; the answer to a poor product is to talk/vote with your feet i.e to walk away. If you don't like the product, you don't buy it; you choose another one.

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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:08 (Ref:4117232)   #217
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don't know Gow in real life but I would bet that huge EGO would never allow to admit the elephant in the room
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:13 (Ref:4117233)   #218
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you use toilet paper right ? now if the producer of toilet paper start doing lower and lower quality product and the consumer don't complain about it and just "accept" it as is guess what the producers have no interest or desire to improve the product !!!! on the contrary it wil stay same low or they will make it even lower standard if they can get away with !! what I say can apply to nearly every product
You'd switch to a different brand.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:16 (Ref:4117235)   #219
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You'd switch to a different brand.
yes but guess what , usually the major companies in any given sector make hidden deals with eachother which are bad for consumers


otherwise how do you think there aren't any lightballs which could last easy 10+ years or shavers which could last easy 2+ years
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:23 (Ref:4117236)   #220
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I spent the weekend there on one of my few excursions for modern racing . My thoughts -

- big , well behaved crowd (only one drunk) and less litter than usual. But Jesus , what is it with BTCC fans that even on a dry day they have to erect view- obstructing gazebos and , in one case , virtually a bloody marquee ?
.

Wasn't the massive blue one on the hill at bend 2 by any chance? Walked past that early doors and just rolled my eyes. People weren't even sitting inside it was being used like a kitchen/dining room. Absolutely bizzare.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:29 (Ref:4117237)   #221
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You'd switch to a different brand.
Come on now.

Obviously.

You'd anonymously log into and online forum and repeatedly whine and moan about how something your choosing to use isn't as good as it was.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 16:58 (Ref:4117240)   #222
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Wasn't the massive blue one on the hill at bend 2 by any chance? Walked past that early doors and just rolled my eyes. People weren't even sitting inside it was being used like a kitchen/dining room. Absolutely bizzare.

What I found annoying was the number of people that had the mini tents, not because they were obstructing the view per se, but they take up very valuable space where other spectators could stand/sit.

We also thought that the attendance was much greater this year. We arrived about 20 minutes later (before 8.30) this year than last, and we were surprised at how many people were already there, as opposed to last year when we were one of the earliest arrivals. However, we plonked our chairs in exactly the same spot as last year, luckily it was one of the only front row spots still available on the narrow banking directly overlooking the tyre stack at the chicane, and unlike last year, people formed a 2nd row behind all of us.

Also found, as usual at Croft, people are all pleasant and no rowdy behaviour anywhere near us.

As someone else mentioned a couple of pages back, the popping and banging when they were changing gear of so many of the different classes of cars was rather unpleasant and somewhat tiring after a while. I would imagine it was something to do with the turbo operation.

The F4s produced a better sound this year, and more like a racing engine because they had been much quieter in the past.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 17:01 (Ref:4117241)   #223
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Also found, as usual at Croft, people are all pleasant and no rowdy behaviour anywhere near us.
With such a knowledgable crowd you would expect nothing less.
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 17:42 (Ref:4117242)   #224
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Wasn't the massive blue one on the hill at bend 2 by any chance? Walked past that early doors and just rolled my eyes. People weren't even sitting inside it was being used like a kitchen/dining room. Absolutely bizzare.
It was above Hawthorn (I don't do T2 etc ) and was just ridiculous . I have no idea why all these odd folk and their irritating ways even come . I never see them - thank God - at any other meetings at Croft so maybe they think motor racing begins and ends with BTCC ( it's on telly so it gotta be good ) ?

I go and see my local round most years and whilst it is a very long way from my core interest(I like far greater diversity in racing ) there is no denying that Alan Gow has done an amazing job , and has done so for many years. Filling a big grid with many premier league drivers and serious teams like West Surrey is a hell of a feat , and some of the sneering on this thread bemuses me.

Cars not quick ? They are outrageously quick for heavy, relatively low powered saloons. I was at a Croft Time Attack meeting a few years ago where allegedly 800bhp plus cars with huge aero were barely a couple of seconds or so from BTCC cars.

But one other thing I forgot to mention was grid girls . I hardly ever watch BTCC on TV so was unaware that the series is still pretending it's 1974 . What a ludicrous and anachronistic spectacle it was to see skimpily clad women tottering around on high heels - does anybody else agree that it is way,way past the time we should stop this silly, old fashioned nonsense ?
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Old 27 Jun 2022, 17:49 (Ref:4117244)   #225
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I go and see my local round most years and whilst it is a very long way from my core interest(I like far greater diversity in racing ) there is no denying that Alan Gow has done an amazing job , and has done so for many years. Filling a big grid with many premier league drivers and serious teams like West Surrey is a hell of a feat , and some of the sneering on this thread bemuses me.
and it's amusing to see you citing WSR who's team boss publicly critisized the lack of overtaking plus one of its drivers

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But one other thing I forgot to mention was grid girls . I hardly ever watch BTCC on TV so was unaware that the series is still pretending it's 1974 . What a ludicrous and anachronistic spectacle it was to see skimpily clad women tottering around on high heels - does anybody else agree that it is way,way past the time we should stop this silly, old fashioned nonsense ?
oh please, go away with that crap, the girls who did this job in F1 lost an important $$$ revenue because some feminists whined about it and F1 gave in to appease them and nobody asked the said girls how they feel about it, some of them said they actually enjoyed doing it

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