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Old 3 Feb 2017, 16:37 (Ref:3709081)   #31
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Nigel Roebuck's take on BE in his latest Autosport piece is good and from other things I have read by other 'commentators', I think the concensus is that BE's style and approach got F1 to where it is, but is not the future way it needs to approach business. BE thrived on making the deal, applying pressure, getting the best over everyone, it was his way of measuring himself, keeping score. This suited CVC who wanted profit over all other concerns (I believe it is one of their most profitable investments ever), BE kept squeezing until it hurt and CVC kept counting the money.

From what I have seen and read, I hope and believe that this will not be Liberty's way, I believe that continuing the business style under BE and CVC that F1 was close to collapse, too much of it is unsustainable, Mercedes are probably nearer the end of their time in F1 than the beginning, European circuits largely cannot afford F1 and the number of unaccountable regimes who can pour public money into a vanity project are falling or simply can no longer afford it.

So, will Liberty be canvassing BE's opinion and expertise? I don't think they will, I think it is a honourary title to acknowledge where BE has brought F1, but I doubt he will meaningfully be part of its future.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 15:42 (Ref:3709399)   #32
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I agree with the above statement, Bernie helped get F1 where it is, but seemed to be stuck in a time warp and as a result didn't get with the times and that is why it suffered in recent times
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 15:55 (Ref:3709404)   #33
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It's just time for Bernie to relax he is almost 87, the smart thing for Liberty would be able to call on him for his thoughts on a deal related subject, if they feel they need him..
Bernie maybe you would like to visit some races as a spectator ? 😊
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 18:05 (Ref:3709455)   #34
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Can someone make a competing series with pretty cars with nice sounding engines?

Bernie may be out of date, but some out of date things are just plain better. F1 aesthetics and audibles for example. But not milk.

Arguably, some stuff BE Came up with was mental, but actually very modern. Gimmick medal and qualifying systems were crap, but actually very modern. NASCAR has the race for the chase for the quest for the cup for the thing, whilst Formula-E has fan votes for boosts. BTCC does reverse grid out of a hat. IMSA does points mid-race for the NAEC cup. I hope liberty doesn't take a 'modern' approach in that sense.
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Old 4 Feb 2017, 19:49 (Ref:3709553)   #35
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Can someone make a competing series with pretty cars with nice sounding engines?
.......http://www.speedcafe.com/2016/03/31/...gory-launched/
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Old 5 Feb 2017, 06:39 (Ref:3710005)   #36
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The noise could be good, although all will sound the same! Sadly in the UK by the time certain circuit noise restrictions were taken into consideration, probably hardly hear them. And not so sure I'd call the prototype 'pretty'......

Here's an idea- Why not just watch historic racing- F1, HGPCA or any other!
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Old 5 Feb 2017, 15:21 (Ref:3710148)   #37
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Here's an idea- Why not just watch historic racing- F1, HGPCA or any other!
I with that series well, but I say the same when this comes up! The specs people sometimes ask for are technological throwbacks that pretty much match historic racing.

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Old 5 Feb 2017, 16:12 (Ref:3710161)   #38
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Dear lord that's awful. 1970s stuff and 2010 are the worst looking F1 cars of the lot. Could they not have made them look like 80s or 90s vehicles?

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I with that series well, but I say the same when this comes up! The specs people sometimes ask for are technological throwbacks that pretty much match historic racing.

Richard
Lots of problems with Historic Racing though - bad drivers, small grids, poor TV coverage, no live streams, no live timing, and bad racing. I'm sure it's lovely hearing the sound and seeing the cars, but really - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLqI7S6Cs7Y

When I asked for better looking cars, I'm not asking for technological throwbacks. I'm asking for the cars to look nice. And sound nice. You can do that whilst having technology too. I want to see the best drivers in the world, with awesome looking and sounding cars. If I watch historic racing, I might get some awesome looking and sounding cars, but they are barely drivers, nevermind the best, and it's barely racing. Certainly the Group C events at Le Mans have been more of a parade than a race.

There will be exceptions such as Goodwood and the Le Mans Classic, but generally, no thanks. It's all fine and good for what it is, but it is not a substitute for those who are not satisfied with the direction F1 is going in.
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Old 5 Feb 2017, 21:52 (Ref:3710264)   #39
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Dear lord that's awful. 1970s stuff and 2010 are the worst looking F1 cars of the lot. Could they not have made them look like 80s or 90s vehicles?
It's actually based on the Swift Formula Nippon car - regarded by many people to be one of -if not THAT- best-looking open-wheelers of the modern age.

That giant airbox does ruin it, though. The old Lola T330/332 F5000 car was a really sharp looking car(particularly in the black Interscope colors), but that airbox was ridiculous.

Also, the folks behind FT5000 really screwed up in announcing it. I was stunned when the car began testing because I had dismissed it as an April Fool's joke due to the date of announcement - putting a 70s F5000 airbox on one of the best looking modern open wheelers did not help to make it look legit, either. It's 2017, if you MUST have an airbox we know of far more efficient shapes to use, don't just use the old style to create a connection that need not be made - people will get the connection once they hear the engine.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 14:39 (Ref:3710498)   #40
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We are way off topic here, but I will try to make this my last post (and a bit of a rant) on this derailment! I say this fits my theory that all threads in the F1 forum eventually gravitates and becomes "This is what is wrong with F1 and here is how you fix it"

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Dear lord that's awful. 1970s stuff and 2010 are the worst looking F1 cars of the lot. Could they not have made them look like 80s or 90s vehicles?
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It's actually based on the Swift Formula Nippon car - regarded by many people to be one of -if not THAT- best-looking open-wheelers of the modern age.
See, that is also part of the problem. We as fan can't quite agree on what part of the past we want to replicate. That is a challenge by itself.

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That giant airbox does ruin it, though. The old Lola T330/332 F5000 car was a really sharp looking car(particularly in the black Interscope colors), but that airbox was ridiculous.
The airbox is ridiculous on the formula thunder car. Pure pandering to the fans, but in a japanese "bosozoku style" way with extreme exaggeration of real elements, but with them being so over the top as to be totally functionless. "Contrived" is the word I am looking for.



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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
Lots of problems with Historic Racing though - bad drivers, small grids, poor TV coverage, no live streams, no live timing, and bad racing. I'm sure it's lovely hearing the sound and seeing the cars, but really - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLqI7S6Cs7Y
Actually using historic racing as the baseline is unfair (and I am guilty of that). Historic racing (which I love) is a great way to see and hear the cars in person. But, yes, the quality of racing is just not there and that is fine as I frankly don't think anyone expects it to be. It is generally wealth gentleman drivers who are doing their best and having fun via their Walter Mitty moment. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It fills a particular niche.

I think what people ask for is what I would call "professional vintage racing". They long for a top tier series which also has significant technical restrictions that define the look and sound of the cars (with the look and sound generally being something modeled upon a previous motorsports era). Everyone has their personal list of what is wrong with racing and some will attach those to this utopian ideal as well. Examples being lower costs, quality of racing, etc. This ideal becomes some sort of panacea.

My point is that...

If the spec is so tight that more money does not increase speed, then there is little reason to try to find money, which means no large sponsors, which means no prestige, which means no top level engineering and driver talent, which means that (broadly speaking) nobody would care or watch.

Or put another way...

This idyllic tightly controlled series would never be a top tier or prestigious series with a wide fanbase or viewership, but rather a niche product.

Hybrid versions work (such as NASCAR) in which the regulations are tight and looks and sound is preserved, but spending money can equate to performance so the sponsorship and ultimately prestige exists. But those who like technological progress... NASCAR doesn't scratch our (or at least my) itch. Also... year after year those cars (at least to me) pretty much look/sound the same. I like to see something different other than new livery.

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When I asked for better looking cars, I'm not asking for technological throwbacks. I'm asking for the cars to look nice. And sound nice. You can do that whilst having technology too. I want to see the best drivers in the world, with awesome looking and sounding cars.
I think that "beauty is speed" is a fine goal, but I have a hard time figuring out how to marry both a spec look and sound plus technological freedom.

Rant over.

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Old 6 Feb 2017, 17:22 (Ref:3710519)   #41
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Richard, if I may pick you up on one point. Try and look up some of the Youtubes of historic racing in the UK and in other places. Some of the dicing in, for example, Goodwood, Silverstone or Monaco is the historics, whether they be F1 cars, sports or tourers, is as close and as spectacular (if not even more so) as it was years ago. Yes, there are the gentleman/women drivers out there, but at the pointy end they don't hold back.

And with the cars having been restored and prepared with, let's just leave it at, precision (so as not to start WWW III), the cars being driven at their limits can leave you almost speechless.
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Old 6 Feb 2017, 17:59 (Ref:3710527)   #42
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Yes, there are the gentleman/women drivers out there, but at the pointy end they don't hold back.
Yeah, so I really didn't want to appear to disparage historic racing as I enjoy watching as a spectator. So I stand by my broader point, but I also agree with your comments above.

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Old 6 Feb 2017, 18:25 (Ref:3710536)   #43
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I think what people ask for is what I would call "professional vintage racing". They long for a top tier series which also has significant technical restrictions that define the look and sound of the cars (with the look and sound generally being something modeled upon a previous motorsports era). Everyone has their personal list of what is wrong with racing and some will attach those to this utopian ideal as well. Examples being lower costs, quality of racing, etc. This ideal becomes some sort of panacea.
Which is what the Daytona Prototype was morphing into, a "greatest hits" of the GTP era in the looks department.
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Old 7 Feb 2017, 00:16 (Ref:3710587)   #44
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Historic racing is enthusiast racing.
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Old 12 May 2018, 10:33 (Ref:3821636)   #45
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Bernie has just bought McLaren!

Well just one of them precisely Senna's 1993 McLaren Ford MP4/8-6 for a cool €4.1 million.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/135962
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