Car Numbers?

[MrMW]

How long have the cars been running without numbers on?
I just noticed today I cound not see any numbers have they gone or are they now so small you need a magnifiying to find them.

[Hazard]

They are required, and they are on the cars I'm sure.

But it's been a good few years since they've been visible to me anyway...mainly since the noses started lifting up. Many teams now hide them under the nose on the front wing.

The red roll bar is our power of identification now, shame, I used to like those red nose paints, yellow post-its, big turquoise seat covers etc. there used to be.

[forzaf1]

Red Bull, Ferrari, BAR, Mclaren, Toyota, Renault have numbers on the front nose cone.

Alex

[Knowlesy]

Invisible numbers at that!

[Hazard]

It's the pointy noses I tell you!

Plus, the teams with the higher numbers like hiding them a bit as they're embarrassed. The car numbers have got a bit of 'we did this' value in F1 now, unlike the heritage usage you get in Indy & Sportscar racing.

I remember Sauber kicking up a ruckus when they 'earnt' 7 & 8 for 2001, but the FIA decided to change the system. I think they said they'd already printed the caps or something

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by Hazard

They are required, and they are on the cars I'm sure.

But it's been a good few years since they've been visible to me anyway...mainly since the noses started lifting up. Many teams now hide them under the nose on the front wing.

The red roll bar is our power of identification now, shame, I used to like those red nose paints, yellow post-its, big turquoise seat covers etc. there used to be.

you can also identify the drivers by their helmets. albeit that most of them aren't very original, and most almost look the same

[maximus]

I think its about time the regs specified how big the numbers can be and restrict where they can be placed. IMO its about time the numbers became easier to see.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Plus, the teams with the higher numbers like hiding them a bit as they're embarrassed. The car numbers have got a bit of 'we did this' value in F1 now, unlike the heritage usage you get in Indy & Sportscar racing.

Yet when Ferrari ran almost plain livery after 9/11 and do the same at the non-baccy races they do not make a show of their 1 and 2. At least the helmets are different, but as said above so many have similar ones - usually blue with a kamikaze sponsor band - and you can only see the visor and top anyway...

[Kicking-back]

It's the same in many series - the numbers in DTM and rallying are tiny compared with what they once were.

[Jordi]

Williams and Jordan do have their numbers in the front wing, rather than on the nose cone, making them even harder to be seen.

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's the same in many series - the numbers in DTM and rallying are tiny compared with what they once were.

They copied F1 on that. Only it's worse for the DTM - you cannot see any of the helmet.

[thejester]

If it's an issue of driver identification, why not two versions of the livery? Same colour scheme, same sponsors, different configuration.

Though this would, I guess, be easier to achieve effectively on the cars with more than one signature colour.

[Don K]

The 2005 F1 Sporting Regulations say: "Each car will carry the race number of its driver (or his replacement) as published by the FIA at the beginning of the season. When a car is shown on a 25 cm television monitor in such a way as substantially to fill the screen in at least one dimension, its race number must be clearly visible from the front of the car."


So if we buy a smaller TV, we should be able to see the numbers.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Don K

The 2005 F1 Sporting Regulations say: "Each car will carry the race number of its driver (or his replacement) as published by the FIA at the beginning of the season. When a car is shown on a 25 cm television monitor in such a way as substantially to fill the screen in at least one dimension, its race number must be clearly visible from the front of the car."


So if we buy a smaller TV, we should be able to see the numbers.

Yeah, that's the rule I'm thinking of. I don't think it's being enforced at all.

Guilty!
Jordan
Minardi
Sauber
Williams
BAR (close call, but I can't see it from the FRONT of the car)

Not guilty!
Toyota
Red Bull
McLaren
Renault (just, define clearly!)
Ferrari

[JABWOA]

At the last 2 Australian GP's at least, the cars haven't been forced to display numbers aparently (haven't read the F1 regs for many years.) Some do, some are actually able to be read. As a trackside marshal, we've been given more information now on helmet colours and told to watch for the T-camera colours on the rollover/airbox mount. Jordan last year had thier numbers where the sidepod body work forms under the car to meet the rear diffuser which meant the car had to be at about on a 45degree angle (two wheeling it) in order to be seen!

[SkaifeHRT]

Instead of on the nosecone, Williams have their numbers on the front wing. I agree though, the numbers on the majority of F1 cars are next to impossible to see on television.

[Stephen Green]

Just to clarify, for reporting purposes when marshalling, we are told to use the coloured bands from the on board cameras. For instance the No1 car has a black band, the No2 car has a orange band and the third or Friday car has a yellow band.

So if say M Scumacher were to have an excursion into the gravel trap, we radio it to Race Control as Ferrari 1 in the gravel. Likewise Sato would be called in as BAR 2 etc etc etc.

[Jordi]

I know it's all for sponsorship space, but I didn't think it was that bad to have the number on the nose cone and on the rear wing endplates as well...

Especially with sponsors taking over helmets. Renault's drivers have I-mode and Mild Seven taking about 40 percent of the visible part of the helmet...

[ensign14]

The crazy thing is that big numbers could be good for sponsorship. A giant number in a sponsor's typeface would help in brand awareness. After all, NASCAR seems to do OK.

[Lotusonpole]

I'm sure they are there, but due to electronics/tracking etc these days teams don't need to see them so they have been reduced to a legal requirement. Sod the spectators as usual.

With all the run off areas fans are not usually that close to see the numbers clearly.

Cheers
Peter

[JABWOA]

The last thing you would want is to have car numbers based on sponosorship requirements. It creates multiple number formats (even if rules dictated minimum size limits.) The V8 series here in Australia have allowed teams to use thier own number fonts and it makes a mockery of being able to identify vehicles. i.e. a certain red team has an oil manufacturer with a number in thier name which is bigger on the car than thier race numbers (but both in the same format) so when working trackside you cannot tell which car it is until too late (though they now do have green numbers on the windscreen which helps more except when the sun reflects off it.)

[Stefdy68]

For the sauber the number is between the nose ans the driver

See on this image


Stef

[Marbot]

There's no wonder NASCAR is so popular (at least in the USA),you can't fail to spot the number on the car.Certainly in F1 the numbers are not clearly visible and something should be done about it.

[senna12]

Originally Posted by Stephen Green

Likewise Sato would be called in as BAR 2 etc etc etc.

He certainly wouldn't want to be called in as BAR 4, his actual car number!! A lot has been said regarding Sato's performance this year, and I know it's just a psychological thing, but my son, who is familiar with Japanese, pointed out that the word for number 4, shii, (pronounced she, with the long e), is also the word for death. For instance, Japanese do not like being in hospital rooms with the number 4 in them, for obvious reasons.

Most would dismiss it, but the mind is a powerful thing.

[Jordi]

Originally Posted by senna12

He certainly wouldn't want to be called in as BAR 4, his actual car number!! A lot has been said regarding Sato's performance this year, and I know it's just a psychological thing, but my son, who is familiar with Japanese, pointed out that the word for number 4, shii, (pronounced she, with the long e), is also the word for death. For instance, Japanese do not like being in hospital rooms with the number 4 in them, for obvious reasons.

Most would dismiss it, but the mind is a powerful thing.

That's true... didn't Japanese drivers at Tyrrell like Nakajima and Katayama avoid using #4 for that reason?