Far Eastern GPs - yay or nay?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Biscuit, what a bunch of socialist and elitist non-sense. By this "standard", F1 shouldn't be racing anywhere but in Europe in North America? China is the world's biggest car producer and a market. Brazil, India, and Russia are some of the biggest and fastest growing. (Ever heard of BRICs?). It seems ridiculous to say that F1 should not go to market where millions of people can afford an F1 ticket, but not an average farm worker. So what? Should people who can afford the ticket be punished for this? If F1 wants to grow fan base, it should certainly go to new places, places where perhaps there aren't enough fans right now. And most of below does not make any sense to me.

Abu Dhabi - One of the biggest spenders in motorsports and the creator of the Ferrari world theme park. I just don't see this GP being in danger.

Mexico - a growing fan base due to Gutierrez and Perez. Huge market. Huge emerging economy. More than enough people to afford the ticket prices if there is any interest.

Brazil - Are you joking? Same as Mexico, but with a fanatical fan base, and a long history of F1 driver participation. Advanced manufacturing economy that builds anything from jet planes to cars.

China - Great racing in the last few years. World's biggest manufacturer and market. More than enough people who can afford tickets. Sponsors want F1 to stay there. Chinese have a strong drive to succeed in sports, and have many sponsors. I think it's a matter of time before some of Chinese will try to get into F1 racing too.

Russia - Another BRIC. Big market and a producer of cars. Decent fan base even though no GP ever. Urban population fairly affluent. Anyone and their dog travels to Egypt, Turkey, etc (when there are no local wars there) to spend a summer vacation. What is $100-200 to most of them? Government is probably writing cheques for now. Growing local motorsport scene with their national touring, rally, junior formula, and whatnot racing. Russians now regularly drive in Le Mans and WRC, and Petrov was in F1 just last year.

USA - Worlds biggest GDP and a huge market. If it wasn't for the greed of the F1 organizers, F1 would still be racing at Long Beach and Watking Glen. But they kept asking for more and more money, until those popular events close, and the USA GP had become a joke of a long succession of unpopular and ineptly organized GPs in streets of Dallas, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. Indy was _very_ popular event until Bernie asked too much money again.

Bahrain - Racing in the middle of huge internal political strife is very controversial, but something is telling me that they pay Bernie well enough that he want to overlook that. On TV it looks like one of the most beautiful venues. I wish it says as long as they don't have civil wars.

Korea - Those who can't afford it, will eventually lose their F1 race. Which is unfortunate. The race track is very challenging, for drivers and cars.

The best criteria for having the GP is set by the free market. Those who can afford a GP, have it. Those who don't, lose it. It always has been like that and will continue this way. Now, can we set the political agendas aside, and talk about racing?

Clearly you haven't heard the full story of BRICs. Because it's BRICS (with South Africa), but imo should also include Uruguay, Argentina, Colombia, and will almost certainly include Libya in 10 years.

The Abu Dhabi GP is a status symbol down there and most who go just go for the sake of going rather than it being down to an interest in the sport. If you want to know why I know about this, it's because I am friends with a family who happen to live there and go to the GP.

Mexico is busy ripping itself apart, but they wouldn't mind a GP, so they can have it unless something bad happens.

The Brazilian GP is amazing. They can have it, but it will look so much better in 20 years when the slums aren't there.

China. Yep, they can keep it. As long as they actually care. Which they don't.

Russia. Every man and his dog go to Egypt or Turkey, eh? This is every mafia-linked businessman who can afford a dog, right?

USA - Very crowded motorsport market, but they seemed to like it. Why F1 even left is a joke really. But something is fundamentally wrong with the USA (and I'm not talking about gun laws here), but I'll let you work it out. There are similar issues in the UK but (largely down to country size) it is nowhere near as apparent.

Bahrain - Are you joking? Bernie may not care, but F1 will lose it's reputation as a credible sport for as long as it goes to a such a corrupt and elitist country. And Sakhir won't look beautiful when it is being blown to pieces, which there is a potential of happening in the short-term future.

Korea - Great circuit, especially for a country which will lose it's GP in a few years for good, and won't really notice.

As for the free market, would you rather have a Spanish GP or a Qatar GP? Because Spain are in deep recession, and Qatar is in boom. A racist, sexist, elitist, corrupt nation which has bought an artificial GP due it's oil, or a safe, working example of democracy with far less economic disparity and the average bloke who (until recently) would visit the GP without really considering his pocket?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Biscuit, what a bunch of socialist and elitist non-sense. By this "standard", F1 shouldn't be racing anywhere but in Europe in North America? China is the world's biggest car producer and a market. Brazil, India, and Russia are some of the biggest and fastest growing. (Ever heard of BRICs?). It seems ridiculous to say that F1 should not go to market where millions of people can afford an F1 ticket, but not an average farm worker. So what? Should people who can afford the ticket be punished for this? If F1 wants to grow fan base, it should certainly go to new places, places where perhaps there aren't enough fans right now. And most of below does not make any sense to me.

Abu Dhabi - One of the biggest spenders in motorsports and the creator of the Ferrari world theme park. I just don't see this GP being in danger.

Mexico - a growing fan base due to Gutierrez and Perez. Huge market. Huge emerging economy. More than enough people to afford the ticket prices if there is any interest.

Brazil - Are you joking? Same as Mexico, but with a fanatical fan base, and a long history of F1 driver participation. Advanced manufacturing economy that builds anything from jet planes to cars.

China - Great racing in the last few years. World's biggest manufacturer and market. More than enough people who can afford tickets. Sponsors want F1 to stay there. Chinese have a strong drive to succeed in sports, and have many sponsors. I think it's a matter of time before some of Chinese will try to get into F1 racing too.

Russia - Another BRIC. Big market and a producer of cars. Decent fan base even though no GP ever. Urban population fairly affluent. Anyone and their dog travels to Egypt, Turkey, etc (when there are no local wars there) to spend a summer vacation. What is $100-200 to most of them? Government is probably writing cheques for now. Growing local motorsport scene with their national touring, rally, junior formula, and whatnot racing. Russians now regularly drive in Le Mans and WRC, and Petrov was in F1 just last year.

USA - Worlds biggest GDP and a huge market. If it wasn't for the greed of the F1 organizers, F1 would still be racing at Long Beach and Watking Glen. But they kept asking for more and more money, until those popular events close, and the USA GP had become a joke of a long succession of unpopular and ineptly organized GPs in streets of Dallas, Phoenix, and Las Vegas. Indy was _very_ popular event until Bernie asked too much money again.

Bahrain - Racing in the middle of huge internal political strife is very controversial, but something is telling me that they pay Bernie well enough that he want to overlook that. On TV it looks like one of the most beautiful venues. I wish it says as long as they don't have civil wars.

Korea - Those who can't afford it, will eventually lose their F1 race. Which is unfortunate. The race track is very challenging, for drivers and cars.

The best criteria for having the GP is set by the free market. Those who can afford a GP, have it. Those who don't, lose it. It always has been like that and will continue this way. Now, can we set the political agendas aside, and talk about racing?

Oh, and did you notice I had made certain rules that allowed for exceptions such as Mexico and Brazil, right?

[Bononi]

So boys and girls, you better update your GP wish lists...

São Paulo government signed the deal to have F1 in Interlagos up to 2020:

http://translate.google.com.br/trans...084211%2C0.htm

It's a done deal.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Good news.

[JeremySmith]

Brilliant...

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

The Abu Dhabi GP is a status symbol down there and most who go just go for the sake of going rather than it being down to an interest in the sport. If you want to know why I know about this, it's because I am friends with a family who happen to live there and go to the GP.

Knowing some family who lives there does not make anyone an expert on the whole GP. And who are we to question why people choose to attend the GP, as long as they do? Abu Dhabi has done more than enough to show that they care and want others to care about motorsports. The act of complaining of the elitism of in Abu Dhabi or some other country is itself elitist. It's like saying that a nouveau riche NBA player should have no right to buy a Lamborghini or Ferrari, because well, he is not yet discerning enough. And if you look at other auto sports, like rallying and some minor sports, Abu Dhabi sponsors a lot of cars, and they built the Ferrari world theme park. This is the prime GP of the Arab world. It will get only more popular with time.

The Brazilian GP is amazing. They can have it, but it will look so much better in 20 years when the slums aren't there.

I don't care how it will look 20 years from now. However, the presence of favelas should not be a reason to exclude any GPs.

China. Yep, they can keep it. As long as they actually care. Which they don't.

Same story as Abu Dhabi. People will continue not to care about F1, if F1 continues racing only in Europe. To grow fan base, you have to bring F1 there. Besides, China is the biggest car market. Mercedes cares. Renault cares. Honda cares, because they all sell cars there. They all want to parade their F1 cars there. That's enough of reason for the Chinese GP.

Russia. Every man and his dog go to Egypt or Turkey, eh? This is every mafia-linked businessman who can afford a dog, right?

Not true. Mafia-linked businessmen and oligarchs go to Spain, Florida, Thailand, and Greek islands. Ordinary Russians go to Turkey and (very recently) Egypt. Sochi itself is a kind of vacation spot, with summer tourist population probably exceeding the number of locals.

Bahrain - Are you joking? Bernie may not care, but F1 will lose it's reputation as a credible sport for as long as it goes to a such a corrupt and elitist country. And Sakhir won't look beautiful when it is being blown to pieces, which there is a potential of happening in the short-term future.

Everyone has their preconceived notions of what's an acceptable place for a GP and what's not. UK and Belgium? Definitely a yay. What about Nigeria, Iraq, North Korea, Iran, and Syria as of right now? Most definitely not. For other GPs, where do you draw the line? The only truly mandatory pre-requisite for having a GP is the physical safety of the crews and spectators IMO. Bahrain and Qatar are two interesting examples. In the end, the free market is a still good barometer. If Bahrain is controversial enough that enough people like you will turn off their TVs, Bernie and others eventually will see that the race does no good to the image of F1.

Personally, I am willing to give a pass to countries that are merely "elitist and sexist". Isolating them will not do much good. And after all, we're not doing much about elitism and sexism in F1 itself, do we? F1 has been super elitist and sexist for decades now. A playground for the uber-rich. Our beloved Monaco GP is as elitist as it gets. As for women, the most visible ones in the F1 show are the grid girls and the supermodel girlfriends of the drivers. Had there been a few female F1 drivers, then the F1 GP in any Arab country would have been a big jolt to a country like Saudi Arabia, where women can't drive.

Also Benie is not an idiot many people think he is. He understands that the European GPs are the core of F1 season. Didn't he practically bail out the Nürburgring this year?

[Born Racer]

I don't know about Qatar, but there's a lot of corruption in Spain.

[rhawkins]

it seems a shame that Bernie just follows the money....unfortunately the arab/middle/far eastern countries can cough up the millions of pounds needed to host a GP. As for the support (or lack of it) in Korea, Bahrain, India and China, surely this shows Bernie that money cant always buy fans interest. The drivers would rather race infront of packed grandstands like Silverstone, Spa and Suzuka - old school tracks where fans decend due to the racing being better, and drivers being punished for making mistakes on track!!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Sauber boss Monisha Kaltenborn doubts 2015 Indian GP return.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110804

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Sauber boss Monisha Kaltenborn doubts 2015 Indian GP return.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110804

We all do and frankly many hope it never returns. Like Korea, it's a shame to see such a great circuit go, but it doesn't have the glitz and glamour that Singapore has and the people simply don't care about F1. You can't buy people's interests, and maybe that slot can be replaced by a long-overdue French GP at Paul Ricard.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I don't know about Qatar, but there's a lot of corruption in Spain.

Well Spain ranks 30 in a scale of 100 (very corrupted) which is low, Qatar ranks 27, in the 2012 index.


Point is, what means corruption and what it has to do with F1 ?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Point is, what means corruption and what it has to do with F1 ?

Well a certain German court .....

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by wnut

Well a certain German court .....

Yep, and that's that...

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

We all do and frankly many hope it never returns. Like Korea, it's a shame to see such a great circuit go, but it doesn't have the glitz and glamour that Singapore has and the people simply don't care about F1. You can't buy people's interests, and maybe that slot can be replaced by a long-overdue French GP at Paul Ricard.

I wouldn't go as far as to call Buddh International Circuit "great." The layout is somewhat interesting, yes, but it lacks many characteristics of great circuits entirely (of course, these universal characteristics are entirely my opinion): elevation changes, (pleasant) scenery, trees, history, etc.

I won't be too broken up to see it go... there were rumors that the 2013 GP could be cancelled. Now that it seems like they may have sorted it out, it leaves a very awkward silence for New Delhi as a city and Indian as a nation... what will they do from here on out as far as F1? Can't see them returning if they nearly failed right before the weekend started... :/

[JacobP]

^

The Indian race circuit looks pleasant to me, but the racing seems average. I think 2012 Indian GP and 2011 European GP in Valencia were two GPs in the recent times that made me nearly fall asleep while watching the race (maybe being on the north American continent had something to do with this too).

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by JacobP

^

The Indian race circuit looks pleasant to me, but the racing seems average. I think 2012 Indian GP and 2011 European GP in Valencia were two GPs in the recent times that made me nearly fall asleep while watching the race (maybe being on the north American continent had something to do with this too).

It is a good circuit when you can see it through the smog..

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

It is a good circuit when you can see it through the smog..

The smog was terrible. Note to FIA: Compulsory fog lights for F1 cars in any future Indian GP.

[JeremySmith]

Its over for the time being....

It will come back, only if it is meant to be...

[Dixie Flatline]

Definitely yay for me. The Korean, Chinese, Japanese and Indian races are all at work-friendly times to watch.

[JacobP]

The overambitious 2014 schedule has already started imploding:

http://msn.foxsports.com/speed/formu...2014-schedule/

I am glad New Jersey is going under. I hate the idea of bringing the race to the fans on the city streets because the fans are too lazy to show up at a proper race track. Singapore, Montreal, and Monaco are good street races, but we don't need more.

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by JacobP

The overambitious 2014 schedule has already started imploding:

http://msn.foxsports.com/speed/formu...2014-schedule/

I am glad New Jersey is going under. I hate the idea of bringing the race to the fans on the city streets because the fans are too lazy to show up at a proper race track. Singapore, Montreal, and Monaco are good street races, but we don't need more.

New Jersey must have been one of the worst ideas ever conceived and seriously considered in Formula 1. The circuit ran directly by residential neighborhoods as well as local convenience stores! Additionally, that part of the NYC suburb isn't exactly "pretty" like Valencia, Monaco, Montreal, or Singapore.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Beetle

New Jersey must have been one of the worst ideas ever conceived and seriously considered in Formula 1. The circuit ran directly by residential neighborhoods as well as local convenience stores! Additionally, that part of the NYC suburb isn't exactly "pretty" like Valencia, Monaco, Montreal, or Singapore.

That whole stretch a long the Hudson's pretty ugly but Bernie's idea was to have the Manhatten skyline as the backdrop to the race.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Beetle

New Jersey must have been one of the worst ideas ever conceived and seriously considered in Formula 1.

certainly a horrible location for a track but i suspect someone made a lot of money selling or developing real estate around the area.

plans within plans and unfortunately none of them are about creating a viable sporting venue.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Considering we've had 8 racing laps in wet conditions so far this season, how about this for a suggestion:

The country that hosts the Grand Prix has a climate that means rain is regular. If not, then the Grand Prix must be held at the transition into the wet season, be it the monsoon season or (even better) Autumn. Wouldn't that be so much better?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Considering we've had 8 racing laps in wet conditions so far this season, how about this for a suggestion:

The country that hosts the Grand Prix has a climate that means rain is regular. If not, then the Grand Prix must be held at the transition into the wet season, be it the monsoon season or (even better) Autumn. Wouldn't that be so much better?

They tried that in Sepang a few years ago but F1 cars don't come equiped with propellers ( banned many years ago ).