Maldonado 'I'd rather stay at home...'

[Mekola]

Pastor should continue. For the good of Williams and their future.

[Aysedasi]

It does beg the question though - How bad does a driver have to be (get) to outweigh the value of the cash he brings to the team?

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It does beg the question though - How bad does a driver have to be (get) to outweigh the value of the cash he brings to the team?

Pay drivers do have their place in F1, but they have to be teamed up with a decent teammate. For example, Arrows had Pedro Diniz in one car, and his cash helped to pay for Damon Hill in the other.

Williams unfortuantely have messed this up by partnering an average pay driver with an unproven rookie. That just makes them look like a small team unfortunately, and the on-track performances back this up I'm sad to say.

New regs next season, and with a clean slate, I really really want them to move back up in the pecking order.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It does beg the question though - How bad does a driver have to be (get) to outweigh the value of the cash he brings to the team?

In Maldonado's case, it seems like he can say pretty much anything about how crap his car is, without anything being said against him. But we all know that it's cash that should make the car quicker, even if on occasion, it doesn't.

It also seems that Mike Coughlan has paid the price for Williams's dud car, this particular season. I wonder if he'll be snapped up by Ferrari?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by steve_r

Pay drivers do have their place in F1, but they have to be teamed up with a decent teammate. For example, Arrows had Pedro Diniz in one car, and his cash helped to pay for Damon Hill in the other.

Williams unfortuantely have messed this up by partnering an average pay driver with an unproven rookie. That just makes them look like a small team unfortunately, and the on-track performances back this up I'm sad to say.

New regs next season, and with a clean slate, I really really want them to move back up in the pecking order.

You would have thought that a conversation with Mercedes about putting Sam Bird in their 2nd car in return for a discount on the engines would be a good start....

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

One thing is for sure, Williams' problems are way bigger than just Pastor, and as you say, removing his money will just add to them!

They seem to treat their people very badly and it is biting them!

If you were a Williams' employee, you would spend a lot of time, covering yourself, or looking for an alternative, wouldn't you?

I know someone who used to work for Williams and my partner has a friend who is married to a Williams employee (software) and they both rave about working for the team.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I know someone who used to work for Williams and my partner has a friend who is married to a Williams employee (software) and they both rave about working for the team.

Good to hear Knowlesy, because it certainly is not what the revolving door policy looks like from the outside.

Their treatment of a number of their drivers seems to have been very shabby indeed.

Working this one around a bit more Knowlesy, why does Williams always bleed so many good people?
It seems that they have employed the very best in F1, but continually lose them.
Adrian Newey for instance designed 5 WCC cars for Williams from 1992 to 1997 and yet Williams lost him to McLaren.
Perhaps he just could not be retained, but then there are the rest of the people who have been moved on all of whom seem to be of remarkable caliber! Rosberg for instance!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by wnut

Good to hear Knowlesy, because it certainly is not what the revolving door policy looks like from the outside.

Their treatment of a number of their drivers seems to have been very shabby indeed.

Working this one around a bit more Knowlesy, why does Williams always bleed so many good people?
It seems that they have employed the very best in F1, but continually lose them.!

I used to firmly believe it was Sam Michael's charm....

Patrick Head could be particularly stubborn and hard to negotiate with as well IIRC.

[chillibowl]

did anyone here read Adam Parr's graphic novel?

would like to know what others thought but it left me with the impression that despite their desire to reinvent F1 into a healthier more financially stable league they have effectively become trapped between wanting to do the right thing and the reality of either playing ball with BE or closing down and letting their staff, 'their family', go.

its sad to see them limp along and even sadder to think this is what SFW team has come too but they still manage to find ways to keep the lights on and thats admirable. if i worked for them i suspect i would show massive loyalty to them as well.

i get the sense that they are about the greater good. you might lose talented people because you lack the money to pay them or lack the funds to allow them to be creative but in the end its about survival and making hard choices.

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by wnut

Good to hear Knowlesy, because it certainly is not what the revolving door policy looks like from the outside.

Their treatment of a number of their drivers seems to have been very shabby indeed.

Working this one around a bit more Knowlesy, why does Williams always bleed so many good people?
It seems that they have employed the very best in F1, but continually lose them.
Adrian Newey for instance designed 5 WCC cars for Williams from 1992 to 1997 and yet Williams lost him to McLaren.
Perhaps he just could not be retained, but then there are the rest of the people who have been moved on all of whom seem to be of remarkable caliber! Rosberg for instance!

Well I suspect the truth is rather more nuanced than people being driven out.

The driver situation over the years well, yes, some appear to have been treated shabbily but only when Williams have been in a position of strength. Rosberg left, but they had Mansell. Mansell was ditched, but they had Prost. Prost moved on because they hired Senna. Hill was moved on because of poor performance and they had Villeneuve. Button wasn't retained but they had Montoya and Ralf etc... Driver markets are generally fluid and when you are a top team you can pick and choose.

As for technical staff, well that is complicated. Newey was made a massive offer and wanted a new challenge so left for McLaren. But by and large Williams was a pretty stable (and growing) team up until the last decade, when the manufacturers flexed their financial muscle. This has left Williams trailing and it is no surprise to see their staff turnover increasing as team members are poached or apply for positions in bigger teams offering more money. It is simply the position Williams are in.

They are a close-knit family team and not many people have left Williams heaving a sigh of relief I am sure. I mean if it is about people being difficult how the hell has Ron Dennis got so many people through his door?! Even the likes of Mansell and Hill, who was dealt with ruthlessly, have only good words to say about them.

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Well I suspect the truth is rather more nuanced than people being driven out.

The driver situation over the years well, yes, some appear to have been treated shabbily but only when Williams have been in a position of strength. Rosberg left, but they had Mansell. Mansell was ditched, but they had Prost. Prost moved on because they hired Senna. Hill was moved on because of poor performance and they had Villeneuve. Button wasn't retained but they had Montoya and Ralf etc... Driver markets are generally fluid and when you are a top team you can pick and choose.

As for technical staff, well that is complicated. Newey was made a massive offer and wanted a new challenge so left for McLaren. But by and large Williams was a pretty stable (and growing) team up until the last decade, when the manufacturers flexed their financial muscle. This has left Williams trailing and it is no surprise to see their staff turnover increasing as team members are poached or apply for positions in bigger teams offering more money. It is simply the position Williams are in.

They are a close-knit family team and not many people have left Williams heaving a sigh of relief I am sure. I mean if it is about people being difficult how the hell has Ron Dennis got so many people through his door?! Even the likes of Mansell and Hill, who was dealt with ruthlessly, have only good words to say about them.

Poor performance? He won the title in his last season for them. Started all 16 races from the front row of the grid. Was (and still is) Williams second most successful driver in terms of race victories.
Couldn't really have done any better.

[chunterer]

Relatively successful, yes.

However he should have won both '95 and '96 titles with those superb cars. If he had, he would have been kept on to go for the hat trick in 1997 I'm sure.

[Paradise City]

IIRC the decision was made not to rehire Hill before the 96 season. Hill had lost the championship twice to Schumacher despite Hill having what was regarded as the superior car. I think that was the notion anyway. Schumacher tumbled to an uncompetitive Ferrari so Hill got a further leg up to take the crown.

Williams didn't take too well to being pushed by Mansell either. They had Prost in the wings so they kinda shrugged their shoulders about rehiring Mansell for 1993. There was even a protest campaign set up but Williams refused to budge about rehiring Britain's man of the year; that too will create a bit of reputation in the public mind.

I think the idea that Williams are difficult to work for also comes from Newey being refused shares in the team and that refusal became so acrimonious he left. Oddly enough Williams and Head being so stodgy about relinquishing shares for so long in the face of commercial logic probably points to them being more sentimental than we might otherwise be lead to believe.

[FIA Stewards]

Why are people saying that Pastor should stay? You would have to be out of your mind considering he's had 3 years to prove that he could drive but sadly, he hasn't changed his ways from GP2. From intentionally wrecking Perez in 2011 to smashing into Hamilton at Valencia 2012 to now what happened at Japan. Sadly he will stay because F1 is about the money, he has a lot of it

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by FIA Stewards

Why are people saying that Pastor should stay? You would have to be out of your mind considering he's had 3 years to prove that he could drive but sadly, he hasn't changed his ways from GP2. From intentionally wrecking Perez in 2011 to smashing into Hamilton at Valencia 2012 to now what happened at Japan. Sadly he will stay because F1 is about the money, he has a lot of it

Grosjean crashed into half of F1 grid last year and for some reason gets a pass... Why shouldn't Maldonado? Hamilton was equally guilty of poor judgement in that crash.

[Aysedasi]

Romain has improved slightly, after all.......

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Once a driver publicly complains about his car, you know that his relationship with the team has already started falling apart. Considering his purse and the financial situation of Sauber, I wouldn't be surprised if Maldonado moves there if Hulkenberg moves to Lotus next year.

Heard from an insider that Maldanado won't be with Williams in 2014, someone mentioned his name amongst some top brass from the team & the reaction from them seemed to confirm this! But will the £££ buy him another year? I think if he keeps his backing it will be taken elsewhere.

[FIA Stewards]

Originally Posted by JacobP

Grosjean crashed into half of F1 grid last year and for some reason gets a pass... Why shouldn't Maldonado? Hamilton was equally guilty of poor judgement in that crash.

Yes, Grosjean did cause some stupid crashes last year, no argument there. Difference is that Romain has improved this year and Maldonado clearly hasn't therefore no pass for Maldonado. Clearly the same personality from GP2 which has to change but it won't because he just has to pay up the money and he stays. Also on the Hamilton crash, how was Hamilton suppose to know Romain was going to squeeze him?

[Hawkwood]

Originally Posted by FIA Stewards

Yes, Grosjean did cause some stupid crashes last year, no argument there. Difference is that Romain has improved this year and Maldonado clearly hasn't therefore no pass for Maldonado. Clearly the same personality from GP2 which has to change but it won't because he just has to pay up the money and he stays. Also on the Hamilton crash, how was Hamilton suppose to know Romain was going to squeeze him?

You say Maldonado hasn't improved in terms of crashing into people this year. How many times has he actually done that in 2013?

[FIA Stewards]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

You say Maldonado hasn't improved in terms of crashing into people this year. How many times has he actually done that in 2013?

I believe twice? Of course the car isn't close enough for him to crash into anyone.

[Aysedasi]

And there's the rub. He's been nowhere and is increasingly overshadowed by his rookie team-mate.

[Bononi]

Funny. Unless PDVSA breaks his deal with Williams, I'm afraid Maldonado will stay put.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Funny. Unless PDVSA breaks his deal with Williams, I'm afraid Maldonado will stay put.

For what it's worth Eddie Jordan (not always right I know) is saying Maldonado is out of Williams for next year and could be with Force India or Sauber for 2014...

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3378/...medium=twitter

[Moneyseeker]

To add to the Force India rumour for Maldonado, apparently McLaren have offered to write off Force India's alleged outstanding payments of 8m Euro in exchange for them running Kevin Magnusson, who is also on Marussia's hit list.

If KM doesn't go to FI you would imagine it would only be because a better financial option was available to FI and surely on Maldonado can come up with that sort of money.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns26595.html

Intriguing though...

[JacobP]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And there's the rub. He's been nowhere and is increasingly overshadowed by his rookie team-mate.

I wouldn't say Bottas is overshadowing Maldonado, but they seem to be about even in race and qualifying.