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Old 21 Sep 2022, 21:45 (Ref:4126765)   #3166
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Will they be increasing the PU components allotment?
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Old 21 Sep 2022, 23:33 (Ref:4126775)   #3167
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Maybe - who is this elusive 'we' that gets to determine who an F1 fan should be?
Us. See my bracket in the post.
The people here who for the most part are long-time fans of the sport
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 05:38 (Ref:4126790)   #3168
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Us. See my bracket in the post.
The people here who for the most part are long-time fans of the sport
Understood - long-time fans of the sport may be resistant to change.

But in this echo chamber is there a danger of not recognising what other fans (present and future) want from the sport?

Other series' in motorsport regularly face criticism for not moving with the times, and sticking to outdated views on how a sport should be run. I think there is am argument to be made that sports have to change, or face extinction in the long term. If the long-term fan is the paradigm that the future fan has to become, eventually the popularity of a sport will fade into obscurity.

Sometimes, it seems that F1 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.
Some venues are criticised because they have limited attendance - no culture of support in their country - dull atmosphere at the circuit.
This feels to me the opposite of that - the venues you mentioned (Spa, Zandvoort, Italy) are fêted as having a strong history of motorsport fandom, and a crowd with passion and enthusiasm. Maybe in the post-covid world, this is what passion and enthusiasm looks like in those countries?

I think there is a middle ground here - but tempered with an acceptance that the direction of crowd behaviour will change over time.
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 16:40 (Ref:4126869)   #3169
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The more F1 races, the less coverage for other championships.
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 18:37 (Ref:4126883)   #3170
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
Understood - long-time fans of the sport may be resistant to change.

But in this echo chamber is there a danger of not recognising what other fans (present and future) want from the sport?

Other series' in motorsport regularly face criticism for not moving with the times, and sticking to outdated views on how a sport should be run. I think there is am argument to be made that sports have to change, or face extinction in the long term. If the long-term fan is the paradigm that the future fan has to become, eventually the popularity of a sport will fade into obscurity.

Sometimes, it seems that F1 is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't.
Some venues are criticised because they have limited attendance - no culture of support in their country - dull atmosphere at the circuit.
This feels to me the opposite of that - the venues you mentioned (Spa, Zandvoort, Italy) are fêted as having a strong history of motorsport fandom, and a crowd with passion and enthusiasm. Maybe in the post-covid world, this is what passion and enthusiasm looks like in those countries?

I think there is a middle ground here - but tempered with an acceptance that the direction of crowd behaviour will change over time.
I think the mythical "f1 fan" wants the following

1. All of the races to be in Europe. Except for those "cool" legacy races outside of Europe like Suzuka or Brazil because that is where Senna came from!
2. No races in any country in which the "f1 fan" has some type of negative opinion. Apply appropriate jingoistic or nationalistic biases as needed.
2. Stands to be full of cheering fans so that they can feel validated that F1 truly means something to not just them, but others as well such as those in attendance at the race.
3. No glitz and glamour unless it has some sideways interest to them such as fly overs by old WW2 planes that they idolized as children (note, if they can make them all Spitfires, even better yet). Anything that is nostalgic and takes them back to their childhood is a bonus.
4. No celebrities in the pit unless they are someone they consider to be a "true celebrity" such as.. "Oh, is that Jean Alesi I see standing next to Giancarlo Minardi?" No movie stars unless you happen to really like the movies they are in.

I could probably keep going.

Richard
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 19:08 (Ref:4126888)   #3171
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I think the mythical "f1 fan" wants the following

1. All of the races to be in Europe. Except for those "cool" legacy races outside of Europe like Suzuka or Brazil because that is where Senna came from!
2. No races in any country in which the "f1 fan" has some type of negative opinion. Apply appropriate jingoistic or nationalistic biases as needed.
2. Stands to be full of cheering fans so that they can feel validated that F1 truly means something to not just them, but others as well such as those in attendance at the race.
3. No glitz and glamour unless it has some sideways interest to them such as fly overs by old WW2 planes that they idolized as children (note, if they can make them all Spitfires, even better yet). Anything that is nostalgic and takes them back to their childhood is a bonus.
4. No celebrities in the pit unless they are someone they consider to be a "true celebrity" such as.. "Oh, is that Jean Alesi I see standing next to Giancarlo Minardi?" No movie stars unless you happen to really like the movies they are in.

I could probably keep going.

Richard

I think there are probably quite a number of F1 fans, mythical or otherwise, who would subscribe to your list. But I'm not too sure about anything nostalgic taking them back to their childhood, maybe anything that takes them back to when they first saw a Grand Prix.


You need at least one Hurricane and a Lancaster to accompany all those Spitfires.
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 19:28 (Ref:4126893)   #3172
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
I think there are probably quite a number of F1 fans, mythical or otherwise, who would subscribe to your list. But I'm not too sure about anything nostalgic taking them back to their childhood, maybe anything that takes them back to when they first saw a Grand Prix.


You need at least one Hurricane and a Lancaster to accompany all those Spitfires.
Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.

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Old 22 Sep 2022, 19:44 (Ref:4126895)   #3173
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Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.

Richard

The last flight was on 28 October 2015.

https://vulcantothesky.org/articles/...of-the-vulcan/
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 22:48 (Ref:4126910)   #3174
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It still does taxi rides. Although that went a little wrong recently and nearly joined a road nearby!
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Old 22 Sep 2022, 23:09 (Ref:4126912)   #3175
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Obviously, more events even if it means less watch per race means the total eyes on the sport and then the success of the sport, by these simple metrics, increases. Not sure this is in doubt.

There are many ways to get more eyes on the sport. More races. More controversy. More more more.

For me it gets less good and the saturation reduces the worth.
Going to some places rather than others also does. Although new places adds. It’s about balance.

There is a sweet spot with all of this and we’ve past it.

And it ain’t about going back to the past. That’d be awful. Generally the future is always better than the past.

Not an F1 fan view. My view. I wouldn’t consider to speak for this group of people, as I don’t really know them and I’ve never met them.
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 06:59 (Ref:4126945)   #3176
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Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.

Richard
Anything involving The Avro Vulcan would get my vote, I was a huge fan and yes, it does remind me of my childhood.

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It still does taxi rides. Although that went a little wrong recently and nearly joined a road nearby!
Sorry to be pedantic but that was actually a different Vulcan which stopped 'flying' even longer ago...
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 07:28 (Ref:4126948)   #3177
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Yeah, I thought about a Hurricane. Maybe even go cold war and include an Avro Vulcan, but I don't think any are flying anymore.
Not presently - although a one-time flight option is being considered for XH558 as part of relocation in the UK.

Two others are in a condition to be able to taxi:
XL426 is in the UK at London Southend Airport (Note, that's not in London )
XM655 is in the UK at Wellesbourne Mountford Airfield and regularly stands-in for filming duties. It was also used by pilots of XH558 for familiarity training. This frame was subject to a recent over-shoot of the taxiway.

If anyone in the US wants to get up close to see one - the following are all on display:

XM606 - Bossier City, Louisiana - Barksdale Global Power Museum
XM605 - Atwater, California - Castle Air Museum
XM573 - Ashland, Nebraska - Strategic Air and Space Museum

as well as the following in Canade:
XL361 - Goose Bay, Newfoundland and Labrador - CFB Goose Bay


So if we want to see a Vulcan at a future F1 race (vein attempt to keep this post on-topic ) - Omaha GP 2025!!!!
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 08:14 (Ref:4126954)   #3178
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No, nothing can beat the red arrows display team
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 08:57 (Ref:4126958)   #3179
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No, nothing can beat the red arrows display team
Oh, I don't know. I remember Concorde being quite a spectacle at Brands Hatch one year!
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Old 23 Sep 2022, 09:05 (Ref:4126961)   #3180
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No, nothing can beat the red arrows display team
The reds are a shadow of what they used to be. Fine for the general public, but to regular air show goers, there is are better display teams out there.

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