Oulton Park BTCC/Brands Hatch WTCC clash in UK (was Genius)

[chunder]

I am not a huge touring car attendee but relaly do enjoy watching the odd round on TV

My point here is that who on earth decided it would be a good idea to ahve the WTCC and BTCC on the same weekend!

I know they are run by two different factions but for goodness sake surely there could have been some sort of dialogue between the two factions involved here

Just seems a bit of a waste of time having three big meetings at teh same time at Silverstone, Brands and Oulton

But then again, surely that would take sense!

[snowen250]

Yup. It is.

[touringlegend]

The BTCC calendar was all set and for some reason the WTCC moved their weekend to clash with a BTCC round!

Infact I think at the time of announcement this weekend was due to be Snetterton BTCC and Brands WTCC but at the request of MSV Snetterton and Oulton were allowed to swap their dates.

[Icebaby]

Very silly on behalf of both parties, WTCC may have lost more as Dynamics and WSR talked about running thier cars at Brands until the clash occured.

[redshoes]

Frustrating isn't it. Blame F1 and the desire for live TV coverage, there's only so many weekends in the year.

If the FIA European Truck boys had got their act together there would have been a forth big meeting this weekend.

It's the same story next month, BTCC @ Silverstone, DTM @ Brands and Superleague @ Donington.

[Aunt Sally]

AND they have started already.

The DTM visit to the UK next year will clash with a BTCC round!

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Aunt Sally

AND they have started already.

The DTM visit to the UK next year will clash with a BTCC round!

If there is one.

[Les]

well I reckon wtcc want to dump the British round and when hardly anyone turns up at Brands on Sunday they will have their excuse.

[BootsOntheSide]

It's an unfortunate situation, Turkington did well as a WTCC wildcard last year and I've no doubt that a couple of BMW guys would have this year. Ultimately it was WTCC who moved onto a BTCC date, but the BTCC is scheduled around F1 (and Euro 2008, costing them at least 1 decent weekend to host a meeting), so there are only so many free weekends - although with 'Global Warming' currently meeting 'intermittant rain all year round' maybe we can start in January in future?

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

WTCC may have lost more as Dynamics and WSR talked about running thier cars at Brands until the clash occured.

Just playing devil's advocate for a minute, would WTCC actually consider that to be a loss.

I'm sure the WTCC in general like the idea of extra local entries to make the grid look bigger, however most of the time the local entries are really just making up the numbers. I suspect the factory WTCC teams aren't too keen on the like of WSR coming in and taking points off them. I know ultimately Turkington wasn't allowed to score points but that was a very last minute discussion and I can't help but think it wasn't a politically motivated.

I'm not suggesting of course that WTCC deliberately scheduled a clash of date

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Just playing devil's advocate for a minute, would WTCC actually consider that to be a loss.

I'm sure the WTCC in general like the idea of extra local entries to make the grid look bigger, however most of the time the local entries are really just making up the numbers. I suspect the factory WTCC teams aren't too keen on the like of WSR coming in and taking points off them. I know ultimately Turkington wasn't allowed to score points but that was a very last minute discussion and I can't help but think it wasn't a politically motivated.

I'm not suggesting of course that WTCC deliberately scheduled a clash of date

Agreed they are usually just making up the numbers, though not so in Turkington's case, he was quite competitive.

I'd imagine WTCC would see the gain more so that there isn't a total stranger (from an international viewing perspective) suddenly dicing with the WTCC elite from some national series, undermining the competitiveness of the WTCC?

[cos]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I know ultimately Turkington wasn't allowed to score points but that was a very last minute discussion and I can't help but think it wasn't a politically motivated.

I'm not suggesting of course that WTCC deliberately scheduled a clash of date

Wasn't it an issue with the different gearbox types that meant Turk's BMW was classified as "locally" homologated and therefore not eligible for points?
Re: the date clash, with every decently televised series wanting to avoid a clash with F1 it's inevitable that a BTCC/WTCC clash would occur. At least MSV saw sense and moved their BTCC round from Snett to Oulton. Looking forward to the WTCC round though (hopefully those tickets I won will arrive on Sat...?!)

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Agreed they are usually just making up the numbers, though not so in Turkington's case, he was quite competitive.

I'd imagine WTCC would see the gain more so that there isn't a total stranger (from an international viewing perspective) suddenly dicing with the WTCC elite from some national series, undermining the competitiveness of the WTCC?

Indeed, in 2007 having first the Volvo (with 0 tire data) ending up in 8th and then Turkington leading the rest of the field round and round, was humiliating enough for them to add a bonus +25kg(?) ballast for single race entries. That also partially explains why this years "wildcards" has been looking relatively bad.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I'm sure the WTCC in general like the idea of extra local entries to make the grid look bigger, however most of the time the local entries are really just making up the numbers. I suspect the factory WTCC teams aren't too keen on the like of WSR coming in and taking points off them. I know ultimately Turkington wasn't allowed to score points but that was a very last minute discussion and I can't help but think it wasn't a politically motivated.

Wasn't the reason Turkington wasn't allowed to score points as he ran his BMW with a sequential gearbox, rather than a H-pattern?

[redshoes]

I'm well aware of the "official" reason but that wasn't the point.

My point is that we'd had locally homologated entries at other races during the year (Toyota Corolla in Germany for example) but there had been no mention of that rule, probably because none of the local entries looked like they would score points anyhow.

We get to Brands and have a top class car/driver/team combination that will have no trouble competing at the sharp end, and suddenly this new rule is introduced.

For the works teams in a championship this close every point counts, remeber we had 6/7(?) drivers in with a chance of the title at the final round. Can you imagine the discussions in the boardroom at the end of the season - we spent millions on this and lost out on the title by a couple of points, and we would have scored those points is it wasn't for a local team who were only in it for one meeting.

Do you honestly believe that the factory teams didn't have a quiet word with WTCC organisers before the rule was introduced?

[chunder]

I really doubt somewhat that the televsision audience for F1 ebven knows what touring cars are to be honest!

They are not on mainstream toomuch anymore so I would imagine in most layman cases they ahve fallen off the radr to passing fans.

There is little proof that people who watch F1 watch anything else. They might follow a driver perhaps, but the majority are only interested in F1, so avoiding date clashes to me (when your audience in this country is probly less than 2 million) seems futile.

Especially when the 'proper' fans would go to both meetings I imagine.

Just typical of teh greed shown by most motorsport promoters so utterly desperate for their piece of pie!

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by redshoes

My point is that we'd had locally homologated entries at other races during the year (Toyota Corolla in Germany for example) but there had been no mention of that rule, probably because none of the local entries looked like they would score points anyhow.

The Toyota was not eligable to score points either. That it wasn't brought up much was because, as you say, wasn't expected to have much chance to actually score. The same for the Volovo S60, but since it had better chances (and in fact did get a top 8 placement) there was more focus on mentioning to the public pre race that this was the case.

CT in Brittain was the 3rd (or 4th?) car in a row that had exactly the same rule applied in 2007...

[redshoes]

You're right, it was the extra ballast that was introduced prior to Brands last year not the 'no points' rule. However the suggestion that it was brought in just to stop the regulars from being embarrassed still stands.

[BootsOntheSide]

Originally Posted by chunder

I really doubt somewhat that the televsision audience for F1 ebven knows what touring cars are to be honest!

They are not on mainstream toomuch anymore so I would imagine in most layman cases they ahve fallen off the radr to passing fans.

There is little proof that people who watch F1 watch anything else. They might follow a driver perhaps, but the majority are only interested in F1, so avoiding date clashes to me (when your audience in this country is probly less than 2 million) seems futile.

Especially when the 'proper' fans would go to both meetings I imagine.

Just typical of teh greed shown by most motorsport promoters so utterly desperate for their piece of pie!

But surely at least 1.5 million of those 2 million BTCC viewers would also watch F1? Having both types of racing on at the same time on ITV channels isn't ideal, because peopel can naturally only watch one - and despite the BTCC providing more exciting racing, Formula One is the bigger draw to most people.

[acorn]

the series organisers for the major series are more worried about tv audiences than track attendance as that's where the major exposure is. the track owners the opposite( lost gate money) . most people these days will have some form of video recorder so having 2 major series on at the same time is not such a great problem. today i will be recording wtcc and btcc to watch at my leisure(i love sky+).

it's more of a problem for fans who like to be there and for the volunteer staff(marshalls) whose resources are stretched to be in more places than they can cover which results in minor national meetings really suffering.

itv having f1 AND btcc isn't the problem. what happens next year when f1 moves to the bbc. btcc will still try to stay clear of f1 dates.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by acorn

most people these days will have some form of video recorder so having 2 major series on at the same time is not such a great problem.

Well, 2 weekends ago we had DTM, STCC, BTCC and WTCC all at once. Not sure adding also F1 would easily be solved by people having a VCR.

[Rob29]

Watching TV coverage there seemed to be a good crowd at all 3 meetings today.Only people to suffer seem to be enthusiasts who would have liked to go to all 3.Must go DTM just starting.

[cos]

30,000 at Oulton today apparently, not bad going! http://btcc.net/html/generalnews_detail.php?id=1072

[touringlegend]

I thought 33,000 went to Silverstone in 2006 on one day (sunday) or was that the weekend figure.

[redshoes]

I assume they mean BTCC record for Oulton, rather than simply a BTCC record. Even then I though figures were higher in the 90s.