BAR to get most punished this season

[mark ch]

Looking at the pics from Melbourne it appears to me BAR are the only team with visable numbers and hence most likely to get punished as the marshals can actually write down the car numbers in a report.

[Red]

?

Hmm, now we don't really expect a driver going away with a rule violation because the marshalls didn't see the numbers, do we!

Besides, no matter how big the numbers are, unless the car is stationary you can't see them on TV. Yet we can quickly identify the car/driver..

[Bononi]

Originally posted by mark ch
Looking at the pics from Melbourne it appears to me BAR are the only team with visable numbers and hence most likely to get punished as the marshals can actually write down the car numbers in a report.

Uhn... so we can expect that they will be doing something wrong in the first place.

[Aysedasi]

Inevitably......

[BootsOntheSide]

Nice piece of satire there Mark. Not having easily identifiable race numbers must be a nuisance for commentators, especially as the differences in helmets are sometimes minor, and the differences in coloured stripes and the like are often hard to spot instantly

[Red]

Errmmm.... Boots, if a commentator can't identify a driver then he missed his job. Blacksmith, bank-clerk or whatever job suits him better. It is excusable for a fan to make mistakes, but not for a F1 commentator.

[Muzza]

Formula 1 should keep car numbers as they are. People that complain about their size should learn to identify the helmets. Real race fans can do it - even seven year-old real race fans.

In my opinion, the true issue is that the large majority of Formula 1 narrators and commentators are simply ignorant about aspects of the sport that a dedicated fan knows quite well - and the colour of the driver helmets is one of them (and by far not the most important).

Sadly, Formula 1 tv crew members are often not hired by their knowledge, but by their capacity to "keep the hype" and "enthuse the audience". I believe I have watched Formula 1 races in more than 20 countries, and with a few notable exceptions, the quality of the commentary is rather poor anywhere.

Large, NASCAR-style numbers are aesthetically horrid. Plus, in times where teams have difficult to raise funds (to the point that the FIA determined the side plates of rear wings to be made larger this year), they only serve to consume space that could be used to display sponsor logos.

I am already annoyed with teams like Ferrari and Williams selling official caps with big numbers embroidered to the rim (the "3" and "4" by Williams are particularly ugly). Drivers should be known by their name, not by their number.

Call me old fashioned, by I feel it is quite impolite to refer to someone in ways like "the 38 gave me a love tap, and my car had a push, so I kicked the 72 in the door, and the 5 passed me inside. This was, whatever, somewhere like turn 4, or something."

Obviously I am in favor of all means to make Formula 1 more popular, but increasing number size only makes it lose its charm and tradition. A less expensive Formula 1 does not need to be a cheaper one.


Muzza

[cos]

Each car will carry the race number of its driver (or his replacement) as published by the FIA at the beginning of the season. When a car is shown on a 25 cm television monitor in such a way as substantially to fill the screen in at least one dimension, its race number must be clearly visible from the front of the car.

They all look pretty visible to me:

[Red]

Originally posted by Muzza
Sadly, Formula 1 tv crew members are often not hired by their knowledge, but by their capacity to "keep the hype"

Precisely. (and in mny particular case, not even that. The idiots that do the... what they call "commentary" make me turn off the volume)

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Muzza
Large, NASCAR-style numbers are aesthetically horrid. Plus, in times where teams have difficult to raise funds (to the point that the FIA determined the side plates of rear wings to be made larger this year), they only serve to consume space that could be used to display sponsor logos.

But there are big spaces on almost every car where numbers could be displayed. Look at the virginal Jordans last year, they could have had a huge 11 or 12 on the engine cover.

I don't think large numbers are aesthetically a problem; they can add to the merchandizing &c and the team's profile. As it is the numbers on the caps are bigger than those on the car.

Originally posted by Muzza
Obviously I am in favor of all means to make Formula 1 more popular, but increasing number size only makes it lose its charm and tradition. A less expensive Formula 1 does not need to be a cheaper one.

Traditionally numbers had to be placed on a large circle in contrasting colour. Until 1984 numbers were very visible.

The problem with helmets is that so many are very similar - at a quick glance from the front (with the sides almost invisible thanks to the cockpit surround) Coulthard and Kimi both look similar (blue and white); CdM's yellow is not visible so his looks like Panis'; and on a small telly screen or in black and white (which may be relevant to a large proportion fo the audience) these similarities are exacerbated.

And if less space were available for sponsor logos, the remaining space would appreciate in value...

[ljakse]

Originally posted by Red
Errmmm.... Boots, if a commentator can't identify a driver then he missed his job. Blacksmith, bank-clerk or whatever job suits him better. It is excusable for a fan to make mistakes, but not for a F1 commentator.

Oh, God!
I'd like to live where that is the rule! Last year's last race - Montoya (mostly grey-looking helmet) was just 'parking' his car on, IRC, lap 4 while our commentator was saying it's Ralf (mostly YELLOW helmet), and lap later, when standings were displayed when he saw Montoya listed as 'out' he was whining how we didn't get to see what happened to him!!!

[ianselva]

I would think you were some sort of saddo if you could recognise all the drivers helmets, not a fan. I may be interested in Motor Sport in general and watch most F1 races but would score very low on any sort of quiz of drivers helmets.

[Red]

Ljakse, you're not watching TVR are you!

[Red]

PS: Iansleva, if you can't recognize car/driver by their helmets or subtle differences in car liveries, or you don't care, then you don't need a comentator at all.

[Bononi]

Doh ! I never pay attention to the commentator, but to the tech guy who is experienced in F1 in the last 30 years, and always gives good analisys.

[GolddustMini]

bar will get punished when there engines go pop! i cant see a number being a problem and besides, cant they work out exactly where each car is on the cicuit anyhow, GPS???

[Rennen]

Originally posted by Muzza
Formula 1 should keep car numbers as they are. People that complain about their size should learn to identify the helmets. Real race fans can do it - even seven year-old real race fans.

In my opinion, the true issue is that the large majority of Formula 1 narrators and commentators are simply ignorant about aspects of the sport that a dedicated fan knows quite well - and the colour of the driver helmets is one of them (and by far not the most important).

Sadly, Formula 1 tv crew members are often not hired by their knowledge, but by their capacity to "keep the hype" and "enthuse the audience". I believe I have watched Formula 1 races in more than 20 countries, and with a few notable exceptions, the quality of the commentary is rather poor anywhere.

Large, NASCAR-style numbers are aesthetically horrid. Plus, in times where teams have difficult to raise funds (to the point that the FIA determined the side plates of rear wings to be made larger this year), they only serve to consume space that could be used to display sponsor logos.

I am already annoyed with teams like Ferrari and Williams selling official caps with big numbers embroidered to the rim (the "3" and "4" by Williams are particularly ugly). Drivers should be known by their name, not by their number.

Call me old fashioned, by I feel it is quite impolite to refer to someone in ways like "the 38 gave me a love tap, and my car had a push, so I kicked the 72 in the door, and the 5 passed me inside. This was, whatever, somewhere like turn 4, or something."

Obviously I am in favor of all means to make Formula 1 more popular, but increasing number size only makes it lose its charm and tradition. A less expensive Formula 1 does not need to be a cheaper one.


Muzza

Muzza...you're very conservative for a yank!...(perhaps you're an expat?)...I don't think we can criticise NASCAR! They know how to 'package' a race series, they are without rival...the average stocker race fan eats his burger, necks his favourite beverage...and yells for his favourite, brand or number.

F1 numbers as so small as to be almost pointless, if they want to make F1 popular to a wide audience, who like me can't recognise one third of a helmet design doing 170mph...they need a larger number on them. I've thought for ages the rear wing endplates should just be large white numbers on black.

"Tradition"...I've been watch GPs since 1957 when cars were in plain national colours with only a large number on them.

[Hazard]

The car numbers are a terrible way of identifying drivers. The crash helmets were a useful way at times, though sometimes team mates have similar designs (take the old Michael Schumacher & Barrichello design) - so no help.

The best bet was to learn the teams own marks - like the lead Benetton/Renault having a red nose...but this year we have something more handy:

The cameras! Car #1 carries a flourescent red camera, #2 a black camera and the spare car a flourescent yellow.

Much easier - as long as you know who the teams first drive is - and when they're in the spare.

[Rennen]

Maybe...but it's a well proven way of identifying the cars they're in!...Hahahaha

[Kirk]

Originally posted by mark ch
Looking at the pics from Melbourne it appears to me BAR are the only team with visable numbers and hence most likely to get punished as the marshals can actually write down the car numbers in a report.

paranoid?

[Startline1]

IMHO we on this forum are guilty of looking at things from a dedicated fans point of view,

To the man/womam/inbetween in the street the helmet colours don`t mean much.

Therefore i would say numbers should be as visible as poss,say min 16 inch/40 cm on both rear wing end plates and nose and say white on red, black on silver etc.