Interesting snippet about PAID drivers

[mountainstar]

Interesting little snippet from Gordon Kirby's recent column:

http://www.gordonkirby.com/categorie...t_is_no55.html

Meanwhile, Kevin Kalkhoven strongly refuted my statement last week that Champ Car is full of paying drivers. Kalkhoven emailed a list of Champ Car drivers who are sponsored and/or paid. His list follows, showing fifteen drivers with sponsorship and a not entirely congurent number of fifteen who are paid a salary.

*Bourdias: Sponsored. Paid
*Rahal: Sponsored. Paid
*Jani: Sponsored. Paid
*Gommendy: Sponsored. Paid
*Power: Sponsored. Paid
*Pagenaud: Sponsored. Paid
*Tags: Sponsored. Paid
*Wilson: Sponsored. Paid
*Legge: Sponsored. Paid
*Junqueira: Sponsored. Not paid except for prize money
*Halliday: Sponsored. Paid
*PT: Sponsored. Paid (heavily)
*Dominguez: Sponsored. Paid
*Doornbos: Sponsored. Paid
*Clarke: Sponsored. Not paid
*Dalziel: Paid.
*Figge: Paid for by his father

One can argue that at least seven or eight of these drivers bring sponsorship with them to their respective teams, but Kalkhoven's point that most of Champ Car's drivers are earning a salary is well-taken. Perhaps the series is healthier than many of us give it credit for. But if Champ Car really was blooming there would be more than one driver who is paid a big salary. Beyond that, we all know that American open-wheel racing could be much stronger and surely healthier if everyone worked together for a common goal

[Fogelhund]

It is great to see that drivers are getting paid, but I don't believe it really is a sign of strength, or weakness of a series. The true strength or weakness would need to be measured, by the combined independent sponsorship revenue, versus the total costs of the teams running. By independent, I mean those at arms length, not family owned businesses, or those of the team owner.

Paul Tracy for example, is claimed to be the highest paid driver, but the team appears to have very little in the way of independent sponsorship revenue.

If a decent driver, such as Doornbos, brings a personal independent sponsor, because they see some value in the series, then I see that as very positive.

[Snrub]

While the series does seem to be in better shape this year in terms of spreading out "sponsorship" I think some of the list is exagerated a bit.

My take:
* As mentioned, PT is paid, but he's not really sponsored.
* Tag might be paid, but how much is a another story. Rocketsports' "sponsor" Lexington energy is a company that PG is heavily invested in. The fact that Tag is running Grand Am this year (and not DP!) may say something.
* Pagenaud brought $2M to TA, I question how much is he really paid? (granted he deserves it)
* Junquiera's car says Sonny's BBQ on the side. Unless something has changed then that's not really sponsorship.
* Doesn't Legge's car say DCR on it?
* The Minardi cars seem to be financed, but it seems to be related to the owner.
* What the heck is Medizone? That doesn't really sound like significant sponsorship for the top team in the series.

[Leighton Irwin]

PT himself has personal sponsorship but the team does not.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Junqueira: Sponsored. Not paid except for prize money

Hate to say I told you so.

[JohnSSC]

That would also be my question here (as it would be for a paid driver from any other series): "Is the team paying the salary, or is the salary part of the sponsorship 'package that Driver X brings to the team?'"

It may have been explained here in the past, but is PT's contract with the team or with GF?

PS - Muzza, I can't recall a time when you were wrong!

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Muzza

Hate to say I told you so.

told me so about what?

[JohnSSC]

Muzza posted that Junquiera was not a paid driver and if anything, he would get prize money only...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

Muzza posted that Junquiera was not a paid driver and if anything, he would get prize money only...

What I posted was that he was sponsored and his ride was being paid for. It had nothing to do with his pay packet.

[Muzza]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

[...]
PS - Muzza, I can't recall a time when you were wrong!

John, even if bearing the risk of sounding utterly arrogant, I ought to forward your comment to my wife.

Hopefully she will learn one day...

[Leighton Irwin]

Oh, that would be exceedingly dangerous! Not only are they always right they outnumber us 2 to 1.

[JohnSSC]

Hey! I have no problem with you forwarding it to her, Muzza! I would be happy to vouch for your inherent reasonableness and accuracy.

In the case of my ex-wife, Leighton, the additional personalities she kept inside her head with her made it more like a four or five-to-one proposition...

[Snrub]

Originally Posted by JohnSSC

That would also be my question here (as it would be for a paid driver from any other series): "Is the team paying the salary, or is the salary part of the sponsorship 'package that Driver X brings to the team?'"

I don't think it matters as long as the driver is good. Eg. Jani brings Red Bull sponsorship and presumably they pay him. Going by memory, I believe in the past both the teams and sponsors typically paid the drivers. A driver's role is more than just on the track, granted that is less the case than in the past or in other series. (Those Nascar guys work their butts off doing lots of things that have nothing to do with racing)

[courageous]

Any arguement about pay/paid drivers is flawed.

Frentzen drove for free in F1 at points, Barrichello bought money to Jordan for ages, even Lauda & Schumacher bought their way into F1; Pedro Diniz on the other hand was always paid.

Which of the 5 would you employ?

Then, my favourite arguement - Honda/Toyota demand a (any) Japanese driver (Takagi/Nakano/Sato etc...); is that driver a paid/pay driver?

[gomick]

where is nelson phillipe? he was a pay driver wasnt he - cant believe no-one would pay him

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by courageous

Any arguement about pay/paid drivers is flawed.

Frentzen drove for free in F1 at points, Barrichello bought money to Jordan for ages, even Lauda & Schumacher bought their way into F1; Pedro Diniz on the other hand was always paid.

Which of the 5 would you employ?

Then, my favourite arguement - Honda/Toyota demand a (any) Japanese driver (Takagi/Nakano/Sato etc...); is that driver a paid/pay driver?

Diniz always bought sponsorship. About $8 million to Prost in 1996, a lot of Forti's budget in 1995, etc. Daddy had him on a stipend of $300,000 a year if I recall.

Most professional drivers find their own funding or at least a part of it and negotiate a percentage out of that.

My whole point from the beginning of this thread is that regardless of what pocket the money comes out of, most champcar drivers are getting paid something.

[JohnSSC]

Said point being way different than the implication, based on the list, that the teams were actually paying the drivers. The picture painted here still remains one in which the series is not yet at the stage where teams are self-supporting and can hire/pay their drivers as opposed to having the drivers pay their own way.

Give us some credit. At the pro level drivers are getting some $$. It may be in the form of prize $$ or a personal services contract with the sponsor or a direct contract with the team.

No one here was implying that the drivers were doing this gratis.