Entry Fee surcharge to support Marshals

[Stuart Hill]

A very open question.....

would any of you object if your entry fee into a championship was increased by £5 (US$7.50) in order to supply the marshals that attend your championship with thier overalls and waterproofs?

[ss_collins]

I don't object with the marshals having that sort of fund... but entry fees are sky high already an extra bit - even just a fiver may just be the straw/donkeys back for some competitors, howabouts getting it from the circuits, who couldn't do anything if there were no marshals.

[DSM]

There'sa;ready been a thread on this. General feeling, from memory, was exactly as above. It's scandalous that marshals should put up with what they do and they deserve full support, but surely the competitors pay enough?!
And of course to get the extra fiver would mean a tenner on the entry fee to cover admin!

[ss_collins]

On road rallies we do often pay an extra fiver for the marshals but the entry fee for a road rally is reasonably priced.

[Bob Pearson]

Of course all competitors agree that marshals should be properly protected from the elements, but this responsibility should fall to either the circuit owners or the organizing club. They are the profit making organizations in the motor sport loop. The competitors have just been hit with an entry fee rise well above the rate of inflation. As most people in this country get an annual rise comparable with inflation all that means that they will either have to drop rounds or economise elsewhere in the household. It is time that organising clubs and circuit owners came to grips with the fact that no marshals or no drivers means no racing and no profit for them.

[Stephen Green]

Ahhhhh the age old question of beneifits to marshals! I will give you my personal views for what it's worth....

It would be nice if ALL circuits were to provide somewhere trackside that we could use to keep our race bags and other personal effects dry, and also where the WHOLE team could stand in the dry between races or practice sessions. Some circuits do provide better facilities than others and so to a degree it depends on which circuit you live close to as to the facilities you get. One answer would be to make it a factor of the MSA or FIA licencing the circuit for racing.

As for sponsorship of overals and wet weather equipment, this has been tried with varying degrees of success by the BMMC (British Motorsport Marshals Club). Personally I'm not in favour of asking drivers or teams to fund my marshalling. but then again I am in a position to afford the equipment with little hardship to my monthly income.

It's a very emotive subject and one that you will receive varying degrees of response. From my experience somewhere dry to stand and keep your kit, coupled with safe and even walkways to get too and from accidents are what we seek more than anything esle. There will always be those who want payment in some form or another but if you give us decent facilities, then by and large we will continue to support your racing. Sound fair?

[Bob Pearson]

Sounds fair Stephen,
What we must remember is that there are four factions involved here, two profit makers, circuit owners and clubs, and two volunteers, marshals and drivers. The two volunteers should work together more to get the best possible deals for each other.

[Stephen Green]

I agree Bob. There is a working party in existance within the sport that encompasses orgaisers, racers, marshals and circuit owners. Just how much success they are having is yet to be known but I have to say it deserves our support.

The problem seems to be profit related (so what's new?) and of course spending money on facilities at circuits goes first and foremost to drivers and spectators as they are the main sources of income. I think that is wholly correct but, at some time the infrastructure of circuits has to be looked into.

I can only really speak about Brands Hatch as that is where I do the bulk of my marshalling. There the runways between the armco and debris fence are in places riddled with pot holes or rabbit warrens. Large areas are bear earth and so in wet weather it's like a bog. Over the years we have ravaged the gravel traps to try and make life easier to live with, but it's no substitute for a decent walkway. Huts or shelters have been reduced in size and are often open to the elements, thus meaning that Observers such as myself are trying to write in the rain and on wet paper. Our teams bags are left in polythene bin liners to prevent them from getting soaking wet and there's nothing worse than standing around for hours on end in wet clothing!

So you see, the small things in life are actually very important. Money comes very far down the list of priorities for most marshals although we all applaud the efforts to make our lives easier and happier (marshals raffles etc).

If we could bring pressure to bear on the circuit owners to really look after their marshalling force, then we wouldn't be faced with the dwindling numbers of new marshals we currently have to face.

Fun innit

[Bob Pearson]

Interesting to know about the working party, what is it's name, i certainly didn't kow of its existance.

[Stephen Green]

I'm not sure of it's name Bob but it certainly exists. With any luck it will be allowed to grow enough teeth to make a real difference to marshals, although I have to admit to feeling a little over optimistic on that matter.

As I said in a post above, if facilities for marshals such as level runways and decent huts in which to store equipment, were made mandatory as part of the track being licenced by the MSA, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

[Stuart Hill]

And you guys wonder why I do Hillclimbs!!!!!
we have huts on all posts (here in the Midlands) as well as all the other fringe benefits as mentioned in previous posts.

I attend motorsport events to enjoy myself. This even includes getting pi**ed on when it rains!! But when you know that the organising club/venue are doing everything they can to your benefit, you tend to put up with the weather. It's when you make the effort to attend an early sign-on and then realise that the day is going on past 7pm that you realise that maybe you are being abused.

And they all wonder why Mallory and Oulton seems to get enough marshals??????

[carrera]

Do marshals get paid for the big events such as the British Grand Prix? And are facilities any better for this type of event?

[KayBee]

Originally posted by carrera
Do marshals get paid for the big events such as the British Grand Prix? And are facilities any better for this type of event?

Marshals do not get paid for any event. Their services are given entirely on a voluntary basis and usually have to provide all their own equipment although for example Riossi sponsor the overalls for marshals at all British BSB and British rounds of WSB and MotoGp.

Sometimes the clubs provide a packed lunch and/or a small gesture of expenses usually either £5 or £10. This is usually occurs at motorbike events, car hillclimbs and sprints but not usually circuit meetings. However, Jaguar car club gives all marshals £10, Bemsee gives £5/10, depending on the meeting, and a packed lunch and marshals at Anglesey are usually given something. Most Anglesey marshals are Oulton Park marshals playing away from home.

However, marshals usually find that the bigger the car event the less there is available for them. BRDC have this year introduced a new tyre scheme incorporating Avon Tyres.

I have never marshalled at the Formula 1 Grand Prix but if you visit the marshals forum and scroll back through the old threads you will be able to judge for yourself how marshals feel about the facilities on offer.

[PDL]

Hi all. If it helps, there is a marshal site at www.postfive.com

Phil

[Stephen Green]

Actually KayBee is slightly wrong in that we do get paid for the Grand Prix. The MSA give us £5 per day, or if you like £15 for the weekend. Facilities at the GP vary from year to year but under normal circumstances the organisers supply extra shower blocks and portaloo's, although there are never enough to cope with all the marshals wanting to shower at the same time.

[Chris Y]

I've just been looking through my entry forms for this year, and on the back of BARC forms, there's a new box, labelled "Do you wish to make a donation to the 'Marshals Fund' ?" - never seen that before, so it must be new.

Bravo.

I'll try and donate at least a tenner for every round I enter, I reckon - and it still works out cheaper than the BRSCC

[Stephen Green]

Nice one Chris. On behalf of all marshals a big "thank you"

[Chris Y]

No, no - thank you all

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by Chris Y
No, no - thank you all

No really Chris, thank-you. If you guys didn't spend your money, we'ed look pretty stupid standing at the side of an empty track.

[Chris Y]

We could go on at this for a while, but I'll accept your thanks if you'll accept mine Neither of us could do what we do without each other, so lets concentrate our efforts in kicking the clubs and circuits into shape!

[Stuart Hill]

Very true Chris but please don't include any of the Midland Hillclimbs in your "clubs". I can't speak from a driver's view but, from the marshals side, they do as much as they can. (which is a lot, see other posts).
But on the subject of you paying £10 per round.......
that to me seems steep. But if everyone in your championship either donated or was charged an extra £10 per season, just how much money would be raised?

We can't, and never will be able to, "force" the circuits to do anything but, if there were rewards for marshals attending a required number of meetings then maybe we could hold or improve the numbers of marshals.

Just a thought, what do you think guys?



Also, any left-over monies, per season, could always be directed to improving the working conditions of marshals. What price a discount on 70+ sheds??????????

[carrera]

Originally posted by Stephen Green
Actually KayBee is slightly wrong in that we do get paid for the Grand Prix. The MSA give us £5 per day, or if you like £15 for the weekend. Facilities at the GP vary from year to year but under normal circumstances the organisers supply extra shower blocks and portaloo's, although there are never enough to cope with all the marshals wanting to shower at the same time.

Who actually employs marshals at the British Grand Prix or any other race come to that and are marshals not covered by employment law?

[Stuart Hill]

Originally posted by carrera
Who actually employs marshals at the British Grand Prix or any other race come to that and are marshals not covered by employment law?

As far as I know, and I stand to be corrected, the fact that we sign-on as volunteers excludes us from many "employment" laws. This is not by accident.

If we were to be "employed" then a whole new can of worms would be opened.....
such as.....

Employer's Liability
Health and Safety at Work
Tax (we'ed have to declare earnings)
Working Time Directive (max number of hours worked)
National Insurance Contributions (who's actually emplying us?)
IR35 (sub contractors)

need I go on??? :confused:

it is for these, and many other, reasons that marshals in the UK will always wanted to be volunteers.
To go professional would cause so many problems.

[Stuart Hill]

ok, so maybe I got a couple of words wrong!!!
The meaning is there though, isn't it?

[graham bahr]

in principle i wouldn't mind, but in practice the entry fees i pay now are only just about managable, as at the moment the entry fees have to pay for everything, what should be happening is that the circuit owners actually do some proper promoting of the events, give the spectators decent facilities conbined with a full and intersting programme of races, then spectators just might start to turn up in decent numbers if they can get in for a sensable entry fee, we would have lots of them turn up, the circuit owners would have more revenue, some of which can go towards the marshalls and some towards reducing entry fees and stopping the exidous of drivers from motor racing, lets face it, without marshalls we dont have any racing, and without drivers we dont have anything to marshall.
if your not sure of my case look at hot rods, drivers pay a nominal entry fee and thousands turn up to watch, i rest my case.