In MSN This week: 1% of entry fee goes on Marshals

[garybirch]

I was intrigued to read the article 'Where does your entry fee go?' in MSN this week. It's quite interesting to see how it is all allocated.
However I was diassappointed to see that only 1.01% of it goes on Marshal's Expenses.

Breakdown was:
Circuit Hire 60.80%
MSA (Insurance, Permit, Timekeepers) 14.52%
Doctors etc 4.90% (also very low I thought)
Rescue Units 3.37%
Awards 3.37%
Scrutineers 3.03%
Programmes 2.87% (Don't they sell these anyway?)
Breakdown Vehicles 2.70%
Radios/CCTV 1.35%
MARSHALS EXPENSES (RAFFLE ETC) 1.01%
Photocopying 0.80%
Championship Fees 0.51%
Catering for officials 0.51%
Organisers fees (Postage etc) 0.25%

So what do people think when now you know you're only a little more important than the photocopier and officals sandwiches????

[Alan Raine]

Interesting breakdown.

I always thought that Insurance was a higher proportion.

Unfortunately marshals (and drivers) pay to attend (membership, travel, clothing etc). The marshals expenses look low as do the awards, bearing in mind what competitors spend to be there.

As for programmes, they will also appear on the income side once sold.

I haven't seen the article but it would be interesting to see what the income side is like.

The ad that appeared below my reply first time round was for Microsoft Money - very applicable!!!!!

[Ian Sowman]

It isn't a case of only being "a little more important", though, is it? You are volunteer officials, you know that when you do it, you are not expecting to be paid for it.

The number of programmes actually sold at many club events will be very small indeed, often less than the number given to competitors, officials, marshals, media, corporate guests...

The article doesn't discuss income as such, it is a discussion of how the competitors entry fees are spent. I can also think of a few costs that weren't picked up.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Alan Raine

Unfortunately marshals (and drivers) pay to attend (membership, travel, clothing etc). The marshals expenses look low as do the awards, bearing in mind what competitors spend to be there.

The article is not about the total spend at a race meeting but rather where the drivers' entry fee goes to. Given that you are volenteers then 1%, which equates to around £300, sounds about right as a cost to the organising club.

The cost of doctors is very low (£1450) considering it covers 3 doctors, the paramedics and 4 St Johns ambulances, and that the BMA standard rate is around £750 per day. As the article points out a lot of the medics do it for much less because they love the sport.

With regards to the programmes, based on typical spectator numbers I doubt that many are sold. Even at £2-3 each that's not going to make much of a dent on the total cost to the club.

[Alan Raine]

Originally Posted by redshoes

With regards to the programmes, based on typical spectator numbers I doubt that many are sold. Even at £2-3 each that's not going to make much of a dent on the total cost to the club.

Agreed.

What I was trying to say was that it obviously costs money to produce programmes, most of which go to the Marshals, Drivers etc. Any sold even if it is only 10 is classified as income, no matter how small it is.

Mind you they could have taken that into account and are only showing the loss made.

Perhaps I'm talking rubbish, so should get back to work!

[flagwaver]

Clubs are required to produce a programme, and for most club events the return on them is next to nothing.
The cost of the doctors is low on this breakdown of costs. We should all be very grateful that a lot of doctors & Paramedics are prepared to give up their time, for (in their terms) very little money.
This aricle was mainly aimed at Drivers to show them what the current actual costs are. So if drivers want to see more of their entry fee into providing more for marshals then let them lobby their clubs about it. But don't hold your breath.

[ss_collins]

where does the marshal money actually go?

[flagwaver]

Depends on the club. Some but it to a raffle, some give an allowance for costs, some do it as a meal voucher. or combination of above.
Doubt if it will come out of race costs,but some clubs will give you money off your membership depending on the number of meetings you do for them.

[Woolley]

I notice that catering for officials is listed separately, and equates to half or the expenses for all marshals. This suggests that race control and commentators must have a cracking good lunch...

Being serious, I wonder what this bit is for.

On another point, I'm quite proud that we are such a low cost to the drivers at a club meeting. That is part of why we volunteer in the first place.

[Ian Sowman]

Originally Posted by Woolley

This suggests that race control and commentators must have a cracking good lunch...

I can confirm that never once has anyone given me a free lunch while I have been a commentator...

[Woolley]

LOL. No, I wasn't being serious. The comment comes from a hillclimb I was at a number of years ago when lunch for the commentators was dropped off at the marshals' post with a request to take it over when we had a moment. It was lovely - sandwiches, chicken leg, a bit of pickle and very nice bit of cake for pudding. Needless to say, and since we were very clearly visible to the commentators, we waved nicely to them while eating it!

We did give them some of our sandwiches as an exchange...

[ss_collins]

I can confirm that never once has anyone given me a free lunch while I have been a commentator...

commentator = journo

journo = scum

journo = always after a free lunch

oh hang on...

[garybirch]

Oh you poor commentators, in your nice dry booths!

:-)

[flagwaver]

Couldn't comment on that! LOL

[Eddy V]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

where does the marshal money actually go?

I know where it goes in Belgium!!!!

[AndyT]

The article in Motorsport News is only a guide. Some small clubs put in a much higher % of the drivers entry fee towards marshals.

I have spoken to some drivers who are not adverse to a levy of £5 to £10 on their entry to go towards marshals and training of marshals. Perhaps this is something the bigger clubs could take on board.

[chezza]

Originally Posted by AndyT

The article in Motorsport News is only a guide. Some small clubs put in a much higher % of the drivers entry fee towards marshals.

I have spoken to some drivers who are not adverse to a levy of £5 to £10 on their entry to go towards marshals and training of marshals. Perhaps this is something the bigger clubs could take on board.

On our entry forms there is a space for the competitor to put a donation to the marshals fund, which we use for training, raffle prizes, a social gathering such as a bbq at one of the meetings etc. This is a voluntary donation, however many drivers do give a donation.

[Stephen Green]

There is a seperate thread on the subject of whether a portion of entry fees should go towards training etc. At the moment training costs are largely met by the MSA.

On the subject of insurance, if you are a BMMC member and you send in your green slips, you get additional insurance cover over and above that provided by the MSA.

As Ian rightly said, we are volunteers and should not expect to see a figure other than meagre for marshals costs.

[Al Weyman]

So OK we pay out another £5 to £15 for training marshalls that currently the MSA do. What will that achieve, nothing but relieve the MSA of an expence at the cost to us drivers which we are already paying for via our licence fees etc. Lets not loose the point here we are all volenteers no matter what side of the fence/barrier we are on and only do it cause wer'e nuts. :-)

[Stephen Green]

Thats exactly right Al, you would effectively take over the funding of training from the MSA and at the same time increase your cost of racing. Marshals get nothing new and you get additional expense. Really sensible isnt it ;_

[Peter Mallett]

Yes, I think the thrust of this thread, albeit genuine, misses the point that we all do it for fun. I race and pay the fee, our friends on the bank "hopefully" get a restful day watching their favourite sport.

We don't pay to get in like a spectator would because we are "involved" or in pr speak "engaged".

Enjoy it and don't allow a thing like money to get in the way. As the actress said to the bishop. Ooh er missus.

[insight]

What about the organisation that takes the 61 percent what are they contributining to the marshals and no doubt they circuit hire fee will go up another 5 percent in 2007 as it did in 2006.

[flagwaver]

Now there lies the crux of the matter. Circuits are a business they HAVE to make a profit. Most motor clubs want to show a surplus but the need for profit is something else.
We could discuss this infinitum and no doubt will. At the end of the day it is all tied up with supply & demand.
I know that it is a bit of a sit on the fence answer, but it’s the best I can do.

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by insight

What about the organisation that takes the 61 percent what are they contributining to the marshals and no doubt they circuit hire fee will go up another 5 percent in 2007 as it did in 2006.

Prove (as your handle suggests) that they don't need the 61%.

[johngee]

Just to set the record straight on 'Official's Catering' expenses - 750MC don't provide anything for officials except a can of drink - just like all the other marshals!. HSCC - we get a sandwich etc. but, to be fair, we often are 'on duty' to deal with things during the 'lunch break
When I find a club that spends .5% on 'lunch', the Fat Clerk and I will be off to work with them like a shot!