[Team] Haas: Gene Haas of NASCAR attempting to start F1 team

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Mixer

anybody know ..what Marussia & Caterham have to spend to look reasonable?

Caterham F1's 2013 budget was about US$110M. Marussia's 2013 budget was about US$86M.

Compare that with RBR's 2013 budget which in total was about US$396M. And Ferrari about US$421M.


Hass F1's budget in it's first year will most likely be closer to the US$200M mark or more in total I would think.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I'm sorry, but what a load of round spherical items in the men's trouser department! No team would enter the championship if the were doomed to fail, so the all believed at one time or another that they would succeed.

It depends on what 'failure' or 'success' means to him. A few hundred million is obviously loose change jangling round in this guy's pocket. So he wants to operate an F1 team from the States and run around at the back of the grid for a few years... or until he's bored with it... what's the problem ?

[steve_r]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Option A) Build a chassis with someone who has some experience in building F1 chassis'. Option B) Build a chassis yourself with no experience what-so-ever in building a F1 chassis. Which sounds like the better plan??

Yes.. a Dallara chassis is never going to be a world beater, but... by partnering up with Dallara for one year, Haas F1 would have gained valuable knowledge and experience when the times comes to build their own chassis in house. Something is better than nothing as they say.

I would have thought that option B would be better in the long run IF they can get in a decent experienced engineering/design team in to do it. I'm not here to defend them though - so everyone on here can carry on with slating them now...

HRT fell out with Dallara over the allgedly poor chassis. It's hard to tell from the outside whether the root of the problem was the Dallara though - more than likely is was also down to not enough cash to develop the thing, or it was done on the cheap in the first place.

[Mr Pink]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I would have thought that option B would be better in the long run IF they can get in a decent experienced engineering/design team in to do it. I'm not here to defend them though - so everyone on here can carry on with slating them now...

HRT fell out with Dallara over the allgedly poor chassis. It's hard to tell from the outside whether the root of the problem was the Dallara though - more than likely is was also down to not enough cash to develop the thing, or it was done on the cheap in the first place.

I'm guessing a combination? HRT wasn't the wealthiest of teams and Dallara is a business so I'm guessing they want to keep a marginal in order to make some money?

[Paradise City]

Dallara would've made a fine constructor for Haas' purposes. With one of their wagons you'd finish stone last but you would finish. That's what you want in your first year. Presuming your drivers stay out of trouble of course.

Originally Posted by Mr Pink

Well I think he'll at least make quite a few fans with this approach, I know I'm definitely warming up to them. Hope they don't go with Danica though..

Results is a completely different matter of course.

I'll be a fan of his when his team gets a working car on the test track. Until then this team does not exist.

I've got a dreadful, sinking feeling Danica Patrick will be targeted by Haas. A little F1 bikini carnival will help pay off a little bit of that budget - at least until the repair invoices come firing in through the letter box.

[VIVA GT]

I'm beginning to wonder if all of this talk from Mr Haas is just a smoke & mirrors wind up?
He could have probably already done a deal to buy everything from Ferrari (and even borrow some team members to run the things) but doesn't want to give the game away too soon...

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by steve_r

HRT fell out with Dallara over the allgedly poor chassis. It's hard to tell from the outside whether the root of the problem was the Dallara though - more than likely is was also down to not enough cash to develop the thing, or it was done on the cheap in the first place.

I suspect more that HRT was the problem, I suspect they only barely had enough money to meet their contractual obligations and performance was not one of them.

There's a lot of finesse and skill in making one of these things go fast and I felt bad for the drivers of the HRT, it looked pretty evil to drive.

Whether it is aero, suspension/shocks, or electronics these things are highly technical and it wouldn't take much to make a car very difficult to drive anywhere near the limit.

I have to think that going with someone at least established like Dallara

[Paradise City]

Campos couldn't pay and indeed had to sell up just before the season started.

Dallara not receiving cash meant they dropped the newly dubbed HRT like a stone and HRT toddled through the season with a chassis that recieved ZERO of the scheduled updates and support from Dallara.

Despite that, that Dallara still had a first class finishing rate.

Dallara is also a proven race winner in sportscars supporting the Audi too. So they aren't a bad port of call for starting out in F1.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'm beginning to wonder if all of this talk from Mr Haas is just a smoke & mirrors wind up?
He could have probably already done a deal to buy everything from Ferrari (and even borrow some team members to run the things) but doesn't want to give the game away too soon...

I don't think it's a wind up, the guy comes across as straight talking. All this is about, is his lack of knowledge when it comes to F1. He's a very successful business man, who runs a NASCAR team and he's applying what he knows about motorsport to setting up an F1 team, unfortunately what he knows about motorsport has little bearing when it comes to F1.

[canamman]

Learned my lesson on the last USF1 upstart. I will not pay any attention to any of this venture till there is a car on track testing somewhere. Its a colossal waste of time.

[Mixer]

Just how much are the rules changing with regard to 'customer cars'?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

I'm sorry, but what a load of round spherical items in the men's trouser department! No team would enter the championship if the were doomed to fail, so the all believed at one time or another that they would succeed.

The dream only fades when a lack of cash exceeds in-extinguished hope!

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Haas seems to catch flack regardless of what he says. He is either clueless (doomed to fail), or realistic (not positive enough). I think his statement above is about the most realistic thing I have heard recently. With my focus on the spending time at the back learning the ropes.

Granted, he still has a massive hill to climb. I see no reason to not watch him try (fail or otherwise). It clearly is safest to not even try.

Richard

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Haas seems to catch flack regardless of what he says. He is either clueless (doomed to fail), or realistic (not positive enough). I think his statement above is about the most realistic thing I have heard recently. With my focus on the spending time at the back learning the ropes.

Granted, he still has a massive hill to climb. I see no reason to not watch him try (fail or otherwise). It clearly is safest to not even try.

Richard

He's not catching flak for whatever he says. He's catching flak for the wishy-washy, indecisive, ad-hoc stuff he's come out with to date.

If the guy is being reckless he can do that just as I'm going to comment on that.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'm beginning to wonder if all of this talk from Mr Haas is just a smoke & mirrors wind up?

starting to feel that way too. for the price of a few hundred grand (i think i have read that $130K was the fee for submitting the bid plus other expenses travel etc) he has generated a huge amount of publicity for himself and his brand.

certainly a lot more publicity then what a paid sponsorship of that amount would get you.

putting my conspiracy hat on, maybe there is a connection with the push for customer cars. maybe his acceptance by the FIA (which makes less and less sense given his seemingly state of total unreadiness) is a trojan horse and Ferrari's/Luca's way of getting additional Ferrari branded cars onto the grid.

always games within games.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

He's not catching flak for whatever he says. He's catching flak for the wishy-washy, indecisive, ad-hoc stuff he's come out with to date.

So what your saying is he is catching flak for whatever he says.

My real point above is that he was (still is) being pilloried for not being realistic in his expectations. So the moment he says something that is remotely realistic, everyone jumps on him again. If everyone does nothing but ***** about what he says then its hard to figure out what are the valid criticisms vs. general negativity.

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

starting to feel that way too. for the price of a few hundred grand (i think i have read that $130K was the fee for submitting the bid plus other expenses travel etc) he has generated a huge amount of publicity for himself and his brand.

certainly a lot more publicity then what a paid sponsorship of that amount would get you.

putting my conspiracy hat on, maybe there is a connection with the push for customer cars. maybe his acceptance by the FIA (which makes less and less sense given his seemingly state of total unreadiness) is a trojan horse and Ferrari's/Luca's way of getting additional Ferrari branded cars onto the grid.

always games within games.

There very well may be games within games going on.

Regarding the entry bond ($20 million???) what are the requirements for getting that back if you bail out? Anyone know the details?

Richard

[chillibowl]

my guess is the FIA get to keep it

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Haas seems to catch flack regardless of what he says. He is either clueless (doomed to fail), or realistic (not positive enough). I think his statement above is about the most realistic thing I have heard recently. With my focus on the spending time at the back learning the ropes.

Granted, he still has a massive hill to climb. I see no reason to not watch him try (fail or otherwise). It clearly is safest to not even try.

Richard

Agreed..it would be better if he just said very little to the press at the moment, he is just trying to find his way, I am sure he is talking to tons of people in the F1 community, hopefully they will offer sound advice ..

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

So what your saying is he is catching flak for whatever he says.

My real point above is that he was (still is) being pilloried for not being realistic in his expectations. So the moment he says something that is remotely realistic, everyone jumps on him again. If everyone does nothing but ***** about what he says then its hard to figure out what are the valid criticisms vs. general negativity.

Richard

No, not everyone is wishy-washy, indecisive nor ad-hoc. He's getting flak because he is wishy-washy, indecisive and ad-hoc.

If he had a realistic plan he would get far less criticism.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

Agreed..it would be better if he just said very little to the press at the moment, he is just trying to find his way, I am sure he is talking to tons of people in the F1 community, hopefully they will offer sound advice ..

I absolutely think he is a neophyte with it comes to F1, but you are right, there is no reason to prove it on a regular basis. In reality, he doesn't need to know everything. The people he hires to run things do. He would likely have less PR issues (at least on this forum!) if he just went dark. But then what would we talk about.

Richard

[Tucky]

Do we know whether he would be team principal himself, or do what Mateschitz does and just sit back and let someone else run it while putting a bit of input here and there? If he's deciding on hiring someone to run the team then fair enough he doesn't need to be as knowledgeable.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

No, not everyone is wishy-washy, indecisive nor ad-hoc. He's getting flak because he is wishy-washy, indecisive and ad-hoc.

If he had a realistic plan he would get far less criticism.

He's wishy-washy because he has no idea how to break into F1, so he goes from one idea to another and makes press announcements, without any PR and so opens himself up to criticism, i.e., wishy-washy.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I absolutely think he is a neophyte with it comes to F1, but you are right, there is no reason to prove it on a regular basis. In reality, he doesn't need to know everything. The people he hires to run things do. He would likely have less PR issues (at least on this forum!) if he just went dark. But then what would we talk about.

Richard

Richard, neophyte is a good description, and yes what would we talk about indeed... :- )

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

He's wishy-washy because he has no idea how to break into F1, so he goes from one idea to another and makes press announcements, without any PR and so opens himself up to criticism, i.e., wishy-washy.

Being over here in quaint ye olde Engerland, we are somewhat removed from the fast moving world that is NASCAR. So my question would be, is Haas like this with his NASCAR team, or does he for that team only issue statements when they have some importance and relevance?

[davyboy]

I really don't know why this guy is getting so much flak. He has suggested an unorthodox way of operating an F1 team, is running various ideas around in his head and [if it ever comes to fruition] plans to spend several years at the back of the grid learning the ropes. Of the three 'new' teams that joined the fray nearly 5 years ago - one's gone and the other two have done nothing more than firmly cement their position at the back. That's despite the fact those two surviving teams are located in Britain.

Haas has the funding to bring his relatively modest ambitions to reality... and who are we to cast aspersions over how somebody spends their money ? If nothing else, it will hopefully enable two more drivers to gain F1 race experience without having to find a bag load of cash.