Homologation Papers

[Yimkin]

Hi folks,

Any idea where I can get homologation papers for the BMW '02 series?

After much googling, all I can find is the MSA offering them for £75

[Adam43]

I'm afraid you ahve to get them from the MSA, I think that is sort of the point. They come in a little booklet they supply and it is all nice and official. Otherwise you could doctor them so that your car had many extras homolgated!

My set only cost £35, but it was for an older car.

[Peter Mallett]

Yep, the MSA.

Thinking of dropping the Oldies but Goldies and playing with us "moderns" Yimkin?

[Yimkin]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yep, the MSA.

Thinking of dropping the Oldies but Goldies and playing with us "moderns" Yimkin?

I can't find an icon that adequately depicts <blush>, so you'll just have to imagine....

Yes and no - the 100E isn't mine, I just share it with my Dad (and will continue ) - I bought a BMW 1502 off eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...MEWA%3AIT&rd=1

(Will probably wrap)

...and plan a rebuild as a 1602 for Groovy Baby (your capri has nothing to fear)... as far as I can tell the FIA allow this now (or at least they certainly allow Mk1 Cortinas to be built as Loti now) - besides the 1502 was simply a detuned 1602 for the oil crisis. *Should* be good for the 1600cc class.

I was kind of encouraged by the fact that the 100E would have put me mid-grid in the groovy baby race at Donington, but to be honest it's a project for me to learn mechanics (my dad does all that at the moment). I'm guessing 2 years (mostly to raise money) and around about 5K for a 'reasonably' hot build.

Any tips appreciated! Jaymic race bits seem, erm, expensive - a hot cam is £300 plus, but I'm guessing Burton engineering would be cheaper - time for some research (all I can do having had to take out a loan to buy the thing). I've got an instructors job part time now, so hopefully that will cover some of the cost

[Peter Mallett]

Ah, (I've had this conversation before).

Well the thing is the 70's saloons run with glass not perspex, full steel panels and original gearboxes etc. Is your pop really a 3 speed?

Anyway the lap times will be similar because you have tuning rather than weight opportunities in the Group 1 regs. I should also tell you that I was pulling approx 700 rpm less than max (That's 10%) at Donington because my rev counter had been "adjusted" by a wayward Mustang in practice.

It all works out though because as with you and the Top Hat series, there are times when the smaller, lighter car has the advantage.

I'll pm an e mail address for a contact.

[zefarelly]

Yimkin . . .good work, your targets are similar to mine, although to be honest when we moved house I tapped a few quid to maintain momentum !!! double the cost and you'll probably be nearer the truth by the end of the day.

I also looked at the times and wondered if I could build a mk2 Cortina and be competitive . . .my car would be in Groovy baby and theres more to come, but a MK2 is a bit heavier, as well as potentially a little more powerful

My homologation papers where about £30, get em, file em and keep a grubby copy in the workshop!

[phdm]

For homologation papers you can contact the DMSB in Germany :

Mrs. Renate Schulz
Abteilung Technik
Deutscher Motor Sport Bund e.V.
Hahnstrasse 70 , 60528 Frankfurt
Telefon: +49 69 633 007 23
Telefax: +49 69 633 007 30
E-Mail : schulz@dmsb.de
Web: www.dmsb.de

They used to charge EUR 44.

You have first to decide which homologation papers you want.
See :
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ogations_a.pdf

[zefarelly]

I have to say, homologation papers are easy . . . .building the cars pretty easy too, trying to get the car inspected and paperwork signed off . . . . . . . . . . ongoing

[carrera]

Are you allowed photocopies?

[Anuauto]

Well they are all photocopies but technically you must have the embossed photocopies that you can only get from the national authorities like the MSA (for a fee that is somewhat excessive for copying, stamping and posting...)

[zefarelly]

I keep the original (copies) from the MSA in the cars file, in the safe in our dungeon

and a 'Haynes' copy in the workshop for reference (ie covered in incriminating prints) I did have a copy in my briefcase in case I needed a quick check of anything whilst I was sourcing bits a while back !!!

I can honestly say theres not a huge demand for mine so I doubt I'm likely to make a mint from forgeries

[Yimkin]

Originally Posted by phdm

You have first to decide which homologation papers you want.
See :
http://www.fia.com/resources/documen...ogations_a.pdf

Thanks all - I had a look at this PDF, but couldn't find a 1502 (not surprised) or, rather more surprisingly, a 1602 (I could find a 1600-2 - I know the 1600 was a separate model, and earlier - the homologation papers are dated 1966, which is before the '02 as far as I am aware, together with variants such as 1602Ti). In fact the 1600-2 is in twice - once with 'TR' in the comments column (which helpfully isn't mentioned in the key) and the number 3 next to it, and one without the 'TR' but with a number 61 in the 'extensions' column - any ideas what this means and how to proceed?

Any further tips much appreciated!

[phdm]

1600 was introduced in 1964.
1600-2 in 1966 with 1602 as the continuation.
See: http://www.bmwworld.com/models/newclass/index.htm
I think the papers to go for are 5117 Ã*f 1966 for the 1600-2 (page 2 of the list).
It has 61 extensions of homologations and probably covers also the 1602.
It should have all the homologations you may wish.

[Yimkin]

Originally Posted by phdm

1600 was introduced in 1964.
1600-2 in 1966 with 1602 as the continuation.
See: http://www.bmwworld.com/models/newclass/index.htm
I think the papers to go for are 5117 Ã*f 1966 for the 1600-2 (page 2 of the list).
It has 61 extensions of homologations and probably covers also the 1602.
It should have all the homologations you may wish.

Many thanks phdm!

[zefarelly]

61 extensions, blimey, you'll end up with an M3

[Frank de Jong]

It's 5117 allright. The Danish Motorsport body had all homologation papers on their site for a while. The TIFF file nr 5117 (55 pages) has a chapter on the 1502 from page 50 onwards.
Mind you, the Escort RS1600 homologation papers has 79 pages...

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Frank de Jong

Mind you, the Escort RS1600 homologation papers has 79 pages...

I'd guesstimate about the only thing that came from Dagenham by the end of that was the roof !

[Anuauto]

Originally Posted by Frank de Jong

Mind you, the Escort RS1600 homologation papers has 79 pages...

First you homologate an alloy block as an alternative to an iron one, then you homologate a different shaped body shell with a different model number (so no, not even the roof - from Saarlouis instead of Halewood - was the same!), then, when Group 2 is tightened up, you have to ditch the lot and homologate a new car in Group 4 that was never built as a production model...

And we wonder why the abortion of Group A and N was then imposed on us...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Anuauto

First you homologate an alloy block as an alternative to an iron one, then you homologate a different shaped body shell with a different model number (so no, not even the roof - from Saarlouis instead of Halewood - was the same!), then, when Group 2 is tightened up, you have to ditch the lot and homologate a new car in Group 4 that was never built as a production model...

Nothing wrong with that. It was still a Ford manufactured vehicle.

Originally Posted by Anuauto

And we wonder why the abortion of Group A and N was then imposed on us...

Nothing wrong with those either. They worked pretty well. I'm a bit curious here because it would seem to me that if it isn't a production item straight off the shelf some posters can't see why it should be allowed.

I then look at "blueprinting" and ........................... well, make your own minds up.

[Anuauto]

Changing both the block and the bodyshell under the same homologation number was a step too far (just what does it take to be a new car)? Nothing of course compared to homologating the Chevette HS and running it in an International event before a single production car had been built (and with a different head...).
Group N/A introduction was the first nail in the coffin of private entrants using DIY-modified cars in International rallies that could still be competitive in club events at the time (ie. stick 2 twin choke Webbers on in Group 2).

[phdm]

Originally Posted by Frank de Jong

It's 5117 allright. The Danish Motorsport body had all homologation papers on their site for a while. The TIFF file nr 5117 (55 pages) has a chapter on the 1502 from page 50 onwards.
Mind you, the Escort RS1600 homologation papers has 79 pages...

Do you mean on the DASU website ?
Any longer there ?

[Frank de Jong]

Yes, and no, they're gone now.

[tzei]

Huh, lucky me. Printed all papars that i need/ are intersted in.

[Frank de Jong]

Guess who had 2 Gigabytes of homologation papers on his harddisk...

[Yimkin]

Originally Posted by Frank de Jong

Guess who had 2 Gigabytes of homologation papers on his harddisk...

Not possibl involving BMW 1602's by any chance