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Old 17 Oct 2012, 11:03 (Ref:3153303)   #501
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Versus wasn't dropped it morphed into NBC Sports.
I stand corrected, either way the result has been the same, a drop in viewing figures.
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Old 18 Oct 2012, 22:17 (Ref:3154077)   #502
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Apparently the TG rumors are more than just rumors. Robin Miller has a new column out: “Out With The New, In With The Old?: Will the 11-member board of directors of Hulman & Company accept Tony George's IndyCar takeover proposal, or keep Randy Bernard in place?”

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-with-the-old/

A highlight:

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If the board does decide to do the unthinkable they need to know the repercussions from the majority of the dwindling fan base would be decidedly loud and anti-TG. It took many of them a long time to try to forgive and forget but this time they’ll simply forget -- to give a damn.
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Old 18 Oct 2012, 23:35 (Ref:3154118)   #503
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Originally Posted by TheMightyM View Post
Apparently the TG rumors are more than just rumors. Robin Miller has a new column out: “Out With The New, In With The Old?: Will the 11-member board of directors of Hulman & Company accept Tony George's IndyCar takeover proposal, or keep Randy Bernard in place?”

http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...-with-the-old/

A highlight:
All this is pretty funny to me. Hope it happens, it's going to be fun to watch the implosion from the sidelines.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 11:16 (Ref:3154303)   #504
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The most concerning part of this is that it is all an internal wrangle over what, exactly? What is it that these folks see as so important to control? The fanbase has eroded. The series is now a spec series. The driver roster is not exactly dripping with talent. The venues are not clamoring for IndyCar to come to their track.

I do not understand this.

Unless...

The question I have asked repeatedly is: "For what purpose does this series exist?"

I think we are seeing the answer to the question emerge. The "players" in this drama are so entangled in their own assumptions and biases that they no longer see the forest for the trees. "Winning" (as in gaining the upper hand on a rival) has become the raison d'etre for the existence of the series. For me, it has become a rich man's battleground in which the sporting nature of the activity has become almost irrelevant.

It is like a real-life version of a Greek Tragedy or a Shakespearian Tragedy where the main characters are locked in struggle, completely unaware of the world around them.

Last edited by JohnSSC; 19 Oct 2012 at 11:27. Reason: spelling
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 11:24 (Ref:3154307)   #505
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^Post of the year.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 11:26 (Ref:3154309)   #506
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Thank you Peat. I appreciate that!
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 21:58 (Ref:3154557)   #507
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Tony George has resigned from the board of directors of his family's company.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 22:06 (Ref:3154558)   #508
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Tony George has resigned from the board of directors of his family's company.
Oh Gawd...so much for the conflict of interest...
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 22:30 (Ref:3154562)   #509
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Tony George has resigned from the board of directors of his family's company.
So, is this a good news for IndyCar? I think it's not over yet.
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Old 19 Oct 2012, 23:48 (Ref:3154584)   #510
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It’s definitely not over. I'd take this to mean that TG's proposal hasn't been formally presented to Hulman & Company's board yet. Whether a deal goes through depends upon TG's mother and sisters as much as anything else, so there's probably a lot of informal conversation going on between them all.
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 00:06 (Ref:3154587)   #511
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It’s definitely not over. I'd take this to mean that TG's proposal hasn't been formally presented to Hulman & Company's board yet. Whether a deal goes through depends upon TG's mother and sisters as much as anything else, so there's probably a lot of informal conversation going on between them all.
D'ya think???

You know, this just proves to me that the powers-that-be could give a crap about racing, championships or the Borg-Warner Trophy. It is all about who will "control" the series.

The last time I looked, "The Series' was in search of a purpose and a fanbase. If there is a point to controlling something that no one is really interested in I would love to hear what that might be.
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 00:38 (Ref:3154597)   #512
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It makes as much sense as a really nasty divorce in which the only people that come out ahead are the hired-gun lawyers involved. All emotion, all about winning the fight, with no regard for the damage done along the way, or apparent interest in what happens after the fight for control.

I was a volunteer DJ at a public radio station at a community college that went through a similar situation, with two groups fighting for control. Each side absolutely believed that they were right and that those other people were destroying the station. It got so out of control, that the college trustee's almost sold the station's FCC license because they were sick of dealing with it.
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 11:05 (Ref:3154789)   #513
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I think indycar could get their tv viewing figures by doing something radical:

1. Get those champ car supercharged v8s back!!
2. Do more races in europe, like lausitzring oval and a road course like imola, mugello, jerez etc...
3. Use standing start in road course races like in champ car.
4. Use f1 2008-2009 full course yellow rules (like, no refueling during full course yellows).
5. Would be a boost to the sport if someone like Will power would get a chance in F1 so they can prove that indycar hasn't made them Non-F1 material.
6. Support races by Dtm, Wtcc, Wsbr etc...
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 12:05 (Ref:3154810)   #514
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I think indycar could get their tv viewing figures by doing something radical:

1. Get those champ car supercharged v8s back!!
2. Do more races in europe, like lausitzring oval and a road course like imola, mugello, jerez etc...
3. Use standing start in road course races like in champ car.
4. Use f1 2008-2009 full course yellow rules (like, no refueling during full course yellows).
5. Would be a boost to the sport if someone like Will power would get a chance in F1 so they can prove that indycar hasn't made them Non-F1 material.
6. Support races by Dtm, Wtcc, Wsbr etc...
The average viewer here in the US could care less about a race at Mugello or anywhere else in Europe. If they aren't going to tune in for a domestic location, they are not going to tune in for a race at Donnington Park.

We do not get to see DTM races and again, the average viewer likely could care less about IndyCar being packaged with DTM, WRC or the Race Truck series (the one where they race the big rig tractors).

If people are not going to watch the actual races, is changing to a standing start going to encourage them to do so? Folks are not going to be inclined to watch a 2 hour race on the strength of the first 12 seconds of the race.

None of these suggestions (while they would be entertaining for the hard-core race fan) are going to do anything to restore relevancy to IndyCar. Most folks here have no idea who Will Power is let alone care if he gets to have a track day with Susie Wolff.
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 12:56 (Ref:3154830)   #515
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Originally Posted by TheMightyM View Post
It’s definitely not over. I'd take this to mean that TG's proposal hasn't been formally presented to Hulman & Company's board yet. Whether a deal goes through depends upon TG's mother and sisters as much as anything else, so there's probably a lot of informal conversation going on between them all.
I would be amazed if the board would vote to give this back to Tony - I cant think of any sound reasoning that would support such a thought
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Old 20 Oct 2012, 16:06 (Ref:3154891)   #516
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I would be amazed if the board would vote to give this back to Tony - I cant think of any sound reasoning that would support such a thought
If Tony waves a big enough bag of money there is no telling what the board might do.
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Old 21 Oct 2012, 08:34 (Ref:3155286)   #517
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Let's hope he doesnt get his hands on that much money
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Old 21 Oct 2012, 12:30 (Ref:3155378)   #518
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The question I have asked repeatedly is: "For what purpose does this series exist?"

I think we are seeing the answer to the question emerge. The "players" in this drama are so entangled in their own assumptions and biases that they no longer see the forest for the trees. "Winning" (as in gaining the upper hand on a rival) has become the raison d'etre for the existence of the series. For me, it has become a rich man's battleground in which the sporting nature of the activity has become almost irrelevant.
An excellent question and an equally excellent post. I would like to know what Ropin' Randy's response would be to that.
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Old 21 Oct 2012, 12:40 (Ref:3155382)   #519
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Originally Posted by Marcus666 View Post
I think indycar could get their tv viewing figures by doing something radical:

1. Get those champ car supercharged v8s back!!
2. Do more races in europe, like lausitzring oval and a road course like imola, mugello, jerez etc...
3. Use standing start in road course races like in champ car.
4. Use f1 2008-2009 full course yellow rules (like, no refueling during full course yellows).
5. Would be a boost to the sport if someone like Will power would get a chance in F1 so they can prove that indycar hasn't made them Non-F1 material.
6. Support races by Dtm, Wtcc, Wsbr etc...
The fundamental problem is IndyCar is a spec series and this doesn't make for a particularly interesting product. Spec racing is ok for lower formula cars but top echelon OWR needs competition. I think the big mistake post unification, was not opening up the series to all comers, chassis and engine manufacturers a like.

There is a recession now and there was one in the early '90s, however IndyCar wasn't reduced to a spec series but produced some of the best racing ever.
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Old 21 Oct 2012, 20:39 (Ref:3155569)   #520
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To be major, massive and mainstream, you don't need innovation. You need serious media presence and a lot of promotion.

But if motorsport is to remain relevant in the 21st century, it needs innovation in green technologies. Or at least promoting them, and Indycar does that already.
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Old 21 Oct 2012, 22:20 (Ref:3155618)   #521
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I think the problem is that when the internet revolution swept the world, Indycar fresh from its split was at a low. If Indycar had been at it's peak and could command the Speedway as NASCAR commands Charlotte and Daytona, Indycar would be thriving today. But with NASCAR dominant, the way back from that is long and arduous and perhaps impossible.
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Old 22 Oct 2012, 01:12 (Ref:3155653)   #522
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Let's hope he doesnt get his hands on that much money
I'll be willing to make a donation myself. The sisters have set the series on a path to destruction. The China fiasco wasn't bad enough now they are talking about trying to go to Italy. What part of US RACING SERIES do they not understand. They have been manipulated and led down the wrong pathway. They have created a product that the AMERICAN grass roots racing fan does not want.
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Old 22 Oct 2012, 01:26 (Ref:3155658)   #523
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I think the problem is that when the internet revolution swept the world, Indycar fresh from its split was at a low. If Indycar had been at it's peak and could command the Speedway as NASCAR commands Charlotte and Daytona, Indycar would be thriving today. But with NASCAR dominant, the way back from that is long and arduous and perhaps impossible.
The split was NOT the cause of Indy Cars problems. In it's prime, in it's glory days Indy Car was never what NASCAR has been for the past 30 years. Outside of Indy it's TV numbers were never near what we see at an average NASCAR Cup race. Even when it was the only game in town it's TV numbers were never near NASCAR numbers outside of Indy. It has ALWAYS been a clique sport with maybe 3 million core fans. Most Indy Car races outside of Indy saw TV ratings in the high 2s and low 3's with an occasional 4 for Long Beach. As for Indy itself. The Daytona surpassed the Indy 500 in TV ratings BEFORE the IRL was formed. From the creation of CART to 1994 the 500 lost 10 million households in TV viewership. The split was a result of the problems Indy Car racing had not the cause of the problems.
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Old 22 Oct 2012, 05:13 (Ref:3155711)   #524
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I'll be willing to make a donation myself. The sisters have set the series on a path to destruction.
And under his management from 1996 to 2009 did TG show sustainability, consistency or long term strategic thinking?

I am not sure why you would be so willing to support something which is clearly a step back?
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Old 22 Oct 2012, 05:54 (Ref:3155716)   #525
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And under his management from 1996 to 2009 did TG show sustainability, consistency or long term strategic thinking?

I am not sure why you would be so willing to support something which is clearly a step back?
CART couldn't make the international format work even with Fed-Ex paying the majority of the shipping cost to have the teams transported to the venues. This was during a period of much lower transportation cost. With current transportation cost and without someone to cover the transportation cost. The teams will be forced to increase their transportation budget with no real increase in revenue to the teams. The international business model that Indy Car is exploring is fiscally unsustainable.
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