Alonso at Indy (to Miss Monaco)...

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

I only saw the footage haphazardly. But Alonso didn't take the first turn flat and doesn't feel confident in giving feedback - yet. I'm sure that'll come. Michael Andretti is as happy as a clam with him. Alonso completed 100 plus laps all n' all and passed the rookie thing.

On midweek Motorsport today somebody mentioned that Alonso ran more laps today than he has in F1 through 4 races this year.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by joeb

On midweek Motorsport today somebody mentioned that Alonso ran more laps today than he has in F1 through 4 races this year.

He completed 110 laps with a top speed of 222.548 mph in the ROP.

[bjohnsonsmith]

This article on Alonso's ROP is worth a read.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129303

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's always going to boil down to how good a race car it is. However, don't forget, this a standardised aero-kit, using the DW-12 chassis and the DW-12 chassis has more than proved itself since its inception in 2012.

Indeed it has... But that doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work out as well as, say, Fernando's first oval test.

[F1Guy]

Sad to hear there were two deaths during the test. RIP.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20YtreTpYRo

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Not EVERYBODY agrees it's changing for the better. A fair amount of people are waiting to see how the redesign performs before passing THAT judgment.

Doesn't matter how good it looks; if the racing is terrible, it won't attract interest.

A cars looks do matter. They aren't the most important thing in the world, but whether you care to admit it or not, the visual appearence of a car is important. We've seen it time and time again with LMPs with fins, F1 cars with stepped noses, NASCAR with the COT and IndyCar with...IndyCar. Looks are not the most important thing, but looks do matter.

Secondly, the current car races like absolute crap as soon as aero is involved. You'll struggle to find an IndyCar race in the entire history of the series that was worse than the Phoenix race just past. With that in mind, the current car is actually pretty poor.

Finnally, great thing about a spec chassis (and parts) is they can be mandated to produce better racing. When CART was struggling for the racing on big ovals, the hanford device was mandtated. A relatively small change visually had a massive impact on racing, without even touching the rest of the car. Swift proposed the same thing for IndyCar with the Mushroom Busters - again a device which they claimed would make a huge difference to racing, with very little visually effect.

Looks are important. The current cars are hideous and aero kits are irrelevant and expensive. The current racing can be pretty terrible. The cars looks can be improved without an effect on racing if done correctly.

[FormulaFox]

We're getting too off topic so this will be the only thing I say about this matter on this thread.

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

A cars looks do matter. They aren't the most important thing in the world, but whether you care to admit it or not, the visual appearence of a car is important. We've seen it time and time again with LMPs with fins, F1 cars with stepped noses, NASCAR with the COT and IndyCar with...IndyCar. Looks are not the most important thing, but looks do matter.

They don't matter anywhere near as much as you imply here. Consider this: How much of an effect did the looks of those cars actually have in the end? The answer is nothing discernible.

The fins on LMP cars never affected much of anything(outside of their intended safety benefits) once they debuted(in fact, many have come to quite like them, and most that still don't barely notice them anymore), the stepped noses didn't cause any shift in F1 viewership that wasn't already going on, and the CoT raced as bad as it looked and STILL had no discernible effect on NASCAR's ratings/attendance at the time.

In fact, NASCAR's recent viewership decline began in earnest AFTER they reworked the CoT into a more visually pleasing and better-racing form.

But when it comes to the importance of looks, bear the following in mind: The overwhelming majority of cars we drool over the beauty of today were considered absolutely hideous in their heyday. Lotus 78/79 springs to mind quickly as it's many people's open-wheel go-to for beautiful historic cars. (for the record, one of the many lies Colin Chapman told about the 78 to keep people off the trail of what he was doing is that the entire car was designed for looks) The McLaren M16 and the 1970s Eagles were the same way. And let's not get into the 1980s Eagles.

In fact, the Porsche 917 is an oddity in that was one of VERY few cars regarded to be a work of art both in it's time and in hindsight. (Porsche, incidentally, DOES seem to have a knack for making cars that are beautiful and still fast)

(and as for the DW12, don't forget that IndyCar has finally started showing signs of growth in recent years - up to and including their first ever profitable season not that long ago)

Overemphasis on looks can bring about disaster. But history tells us that ugly cars aren't exactly a severe issue. Give the fans enough reasons to watch, and they won't care about the looks of the car.

Secondly, the current car races like absolute crap as soon as aero is involved.

I strongly disagree. Despite some noteworthy exceptions, the bulk of the races with the DW12 have been far greater than the races with previous equipment. Case in point...

You'll struggle to find an IndyCar race in the entire history of the series that was worse than the Phoenix race just past.

Actually, I can very easily point out a worse race: Phoenix LAST year. Granted, this year was only marginally better, but there were definitely more passes and more battling throughout the field. It wasn't great, but I daresay the caution timing putting Pagenaud on his own lap had a far larger effect than any other (single) element.

Additionally, while you try to cast the entirety of the problem on the aero here, there's another aspect to the matter. Something Will Power(and a few others) brought up the day of the race and which I wasn't aware of until they did: IndyCar has mandated speedway power on the short ovals. Normally when the DW12s have the big wings on, they have an additional 100 or so horsepower. For some reason, however, they're not providing that on the short ovals.

This is a huge problem when you add the extra drag into the mix. That extra horsepower is a MAJOR reason why the DW12 has put on such good showings on the road courses.

It works out surprisingly well at Iowa, but it's clearly an issue to be addressed at flatter ovals like Phoenix, and is likely to become an issue at Gateway as well.

If the bigger wings are on the car, then the engines should be providing bigger power. This almost certainly would have been of benefit at Phoenix - surely with enough power to overcome the drag, and in fact get more downforce from lower wing angles thanks to being able to go faster, it is entirely possible that a consistent second groove could have been run, allowing for better racing.

And before the "use speedway wings" idea comes up, I'll remind people that CART did that in 1999 and it was...not much better than what we saw at Phoenix. What little improvement there was only came as a result of the ABSURDLY HUGE Hanford Devices they fitted in '99.

With that in mind, the current car is actually pretty poor.

Like I said before, I disagree. On speedways the car manages identical speeds to the old cars on 100 or so less horsepower, and put on(for the most part) far better shows than the previous equipment - that to me is the hallmark of a good(if still imperfect) car.

Remember that they're not getting rid of the aero kits due to fan complaints, they're getting rid of them because the manufacturers don't feel the benefits are worth the cost. And while I LIKE the aero kits as a compromise in this era where they can't go fully open, I do have to agree with them on that - as much as I don't want to go back to a single aero design, I'll take it over one of them leaving due to unjustifiable expenses.

At the end of the day, Denny Hulme put it best in 1970. When the Chaparral 2J was unloaded for the first time for the Watkins Glen Can-Am, someone commented that it "looks like the box it came in," to which Hulme replied, "Yeah, but if she wins on Sunday she'll look (bleep)ing beautiful."

The importance of looks is quite often overstated to a severe extent. Therefore while I enjoy a friendly discussion about aesthetics, I ultimately don't take them too seriously at the end of the day, and encourage others to do the same.

A racecar that performs wonderfully will always be beautiful to more than enough people.

[GTRMagic]

2 million viewers watched online

For a bloody test!

Now that is a result..

[10TENTHS]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

2 million viewers watched online

For a bloody test!

Now that is a result..

Last time I checked it was 1.224 million views on the Youtube video, plus there are various widow\orphan clips edited by other users as well (like the bird strike gifs/replay).

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

Indeed it has... But that doesn't mean it's guaranteed to work out as well as, say, Fernando's first oval test.

That awaits to be seen.

However, discussing the 2018 car is going widely off topic. So if people want to continue discussing the 2018 car, aero-kits etc, a thread started by Jonerz already exists on the IndyCar section of 10-Tenths called:

2018 Universal Bodykit

Feel free to continue the discussion there.

[skycafe]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

2 million viewers watched online

For a bloody test!

Now that is a result..

WOW!

[S griffin]

Love the fact he got 2 million viewers, anything that boosts Indycar popularity has to be good

Also love the new helmet, very Boutsen/Bellof

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Love the fact he got 2 million viewers, anything that boosts Indycar popularity has to be good

Also love the new helmet, very Boutsen/Bellof

At the time I couldn't think whose helmet it reminded me of but yes.

[TheGreg]

Alonso has been studying and watching a lot of video, he watched a video of the ENTIRE race from Ed Carpenters driver's POV. The. Whole. Thing.

He's bringing his A game. The rest of the field better watch out.

http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/14...-brown-at-indy

[F1Guy]

What the... happened to this thread??? Should have been left in the F1 section for F1 fans to discuss an F1 driver's activities outside of his regular F1 duties.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

What the... happened to this thread??? Should have been left in the F1 section for F1 fans to discuss an F1 driver's activities outside of his regular F1 duties.

The minute Mr Alonso showed up and parked his derriere into a DW12 Dallara, he became an IndyCar driver....

[fieldodreams79]

Yeah, it's an IndyCar topic now. Outside of his home GP, where I'm sure he'll have a fantastic result, the month of May and said discussions around anything happening at THE Speedway, is an IndyCar topic.

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

2 million viewers watched online

For a bloody test!

Now that is a result..

That's crazy. I was physically at Kimi's very first NASCAR test with one 10ther. Peach State Speedway and a NASCAR Truck not quite the same as Alonso at Indy, indeed!!!

[RWill2073]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

What the... happened to this thread??? Should have been left in the F1 section for F1 fans to discuss an F1 driver's activities outside of his regular F1 duties.

Needed to be moved to the IndyCar section so IndyCar fans could discuss an IndyCar drivers activities on an IndyCar track preparing for an IndyCar race. Works both ways.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

What the... happened to this thread??? Should have been left in the F1 section for F1 fans to discuss an F1 driver's activities outside of his regular F1 duties.

It's an outrage!

Fear not, F1 fans are allowed in here.

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The minute Mr Alonso showed up and parked his derriere into a DW12 Dallara, he became an IndyCar driver....

Of course he remains a topic for a motorsport forum.

Anyway, the topic is Alonso at Indy. Not where threads are.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by F1Guy

What the... happened to this thread??? Should have been left in the F1 section for F1 fans to discuss an F1 driver's activities outside of his regular F1 duties.

F1 fans can still discuss this, I'm an F1 fan. However, as we get closer to May 28th, the focus is going to be more and more on the 500.

This is Alonso's news conference after the ROP.

http://www.indycar.com/Videos/2017/0...ews-conference

[bjohnsonsmith]

Some interesting comments from Dario Franchitti.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129341

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

F1 fans can still discuss this, I'm an F1 fan. However, as we get closer to May 28th, the focus is going to be more and more on the 500.

This is Alonso's news conference after the ROP.

http://www.indycar.com/Videos/2017/0...ews-conference

That can't be right, the link you have there is an Indycar website :confused:

Ultimately the best thing about this is that it might drag a few people to watch the Indy 500, just like Nige did a couple of decades ago.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Adam43

That can't be right, the link you have there is an Indycar website :confused:

Yes because he's going to be racing at the Indy 500 and just completed the ROP.

Originally Posted by Adam43

Ultimately the best thing about this is that it might drag a few people to watch the Indy 500, just like Nige did a couple of decades ago.

I hope more people do watch the 500 and subsequently other rounds of the IndyCar series.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Some interesting comments from Dario Franchitti.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129341

Not too "shocking" to think that it will be that way, if he makes it to the final laps.



Anyone willing to throw out some early leans on how he'll do?

My early lean:
He'll qualify in the high teens / low 20s.
Then he'll get caught up in someone else's mistake or have an issue in the first half. DNF 27. How's that for optimism?

I honestly hope he wins from the pole.

[S griffin]

He's certainly preparing for it properly, meaning he hasn't got that attitude that a two time champion will just waltz in and win. I think he'll do very well. Top 10 anyone?