Team Orders and Team Tactics

Led ZeppF1 · 11 Sep 2003, 17:17 (Ref:715327)

Martin Brundle ask a dificult question to JPM and Schumi in Thursday press conference. He would to know, what JPM and Schumi's views about the line is between team orders and team tactics.

JPM have no clue. Schumi ask Martin back, how he would interpret David and Raikkonen in Silverstone.

http://www.fia.com/homepage/selection-a.html

Led ZeppF1 · 11 Sep 2003, 17:19 (Ref:715330)

I have no clue, too. Anybody have a clue, opinion, argument, to share?

Led ZeppF1 · 11 Sep 2003, 17:22 (Ref:715334)

Note: Martin Brundel interpret David and Raikkonen in Silverstone as same tactics.

------

Quote from Thursday press conference:

Good question. I personally said at the time that I thought that was team tactics. For me, it was an obvious thing to do, when two cars are on a different strategy but I think that’s the problem we are going to face as we move in. Quite clearly it would be easy to slow down a pit stop or if there’s something pre-determined before the race, it’s an obvious thing to do. It’s always happened in the history of Formula One, but is it something you’re nervous of as drivers, is it something that’s discussed in the team motorhomes?

**Adam43** · 11 Sep 2003, 18:29 (Ref:715425)

Pants question. Pants answer. IMHO.

Bring on the racing, surely this year is good enough that we don't have to resort to this.

Well the press don't have to. Too much ITV in that question. Anyway, the obvious retort is that I don't have to type in this thread! Ooops. I'll get my coat...

We have Michael, Juan and Kimi. Two points between them (and Ralf not far behind, VB). Let's go racing and stop talking about this suff and the misunderstandings it introduces about our sport. Ah, there is my coat...

Mr V · 11 Sep 2003, 19:56 (Ref:715543)

Quote:

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
Schumi ask Martin back, how he would interpret David and Raikkonen in Silverstone.

Or Austria 2001 and 2002

Liz · 12 Sep 2003, 03:18 (Ref:715843)

Since Team Orders are illegal in Formula One, I am sure they will find some other name for them. But this is like calling "theft" a "five finger discount". Same illegal behaviour, under a different name.

If they can't win honorably, they ought to lose honorably.

Valve Bounce · 12 Sep 2003, 05:05 (Ref:715882)

Just after our yacht racing one saturday afternoon, we saw these small coastal freighters heading out of Hong Kong harbour towards the mainland. It was just on 4 pm when the Chinese Customs finished work, and I asked my foredeck: "Are these the smugglers heading for China?"
"No!!" he replied, "Duty Free"

Led ZeppF1 · 23 Sep 2003, 06:31 (Ref:727291)

I find good article about team orders and team tactics. This articel, wrote by Nikki Reynolds (Motorsport) give me same answer, or some clue, about this issue.

http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/f...l&D=2003-09-19

ljakse · 23 Sep 2003, 07:35 (Ref:727350)

I still don't understand why they're banned, anyway.

Led ZeppF1 · 24 Sep 2003, 02:53 (Ref:728295)

Fans didn't want to see Austria '02 incident will be repeated, and FIA make a sure about that...

Led ZeppF1 · 24 Sep 2003, 02:58 (Ref:728297)

Anyway, Frank William has his own view about team orders. He said if they do opt to, it will be for the good of the Championship.

"The public wants to see a fight amongst Michael, Juan Pablo and Kimi. Ralf has to get out of the way. Should Ralf prevent Juan Pablo to winning the title, everybody would be killing us," he told Blick and re-reported by F1live.

"Let's assume, Ralf is running on P2 and Juan Pablo is third. Now Ralf will not step on the breaks in front of the main stand, but I am sure that somewhere on the straight, Juan Pablo will be able to pass."

http://f1.racing-live.com/en/index.html

ElScOrChO · 24 Sep 2003, 03:56 (Ref:728327)

In what category the following is going into?

The second driver from team X let pass the other driver
by his will to do so. A bit like Gené was kind to do with
Montoya if he would have been near him.

Would the FIA judge it as a team order?

**GTRMagic** · 24 Sep 2003, 04:05 (Ref:728332)

If I were BMW, or Mercedes, or Ferrari, I would not see that having a teammate in a same brand of car with the same brand of engine helping out the higher placed driver in the title as some sort of amoral behaviour.

The team may give the order, but it is the driver that carries it out, the driver makes his own decision about that call being right or not...

A multimillion dollar sponsors dont really want to know that driver 2 got in the championship position driver's way and lost them the title, and all the commercial opportunities that hang off the back of that....

ljakse · 24 Sep 2003, 06:34 (Ref:728379)

Quote:

Originally posted by Led ZeppF1
Fans didn't want to see Austria '02 incident will be repeated, and FIA make a sure about that...

Yes, but that's up to a team to decide whether they want to annoy their fans or not! It's like in any other sport - the best player may sit on the bench as long as the coach says so, no matter what the fans want - as long as they deliver good results. You can hate or love the coach, but hey, it's his job.

So, for the good of the sport, FIA makes rules that don't exist in any other sport...

Oh, BTW, if the No 2 driver accepts it, why do his fans support him, and don't support team orders?

Gt_R · 24 Sep 2003, 09:57 (Ref:728533)

It's funny nobody crucify Frank for what he said - "for the good of the Championship"

Oh please...just use it if needed and stop trying to use pretty words to turn team order and personal benefits into something great "for the public"

RWC · 24 Sep 2003, 12:46 (Ref:728677)

Why are some of you trying to blame the teams or even martin for asking??
They were all put in a STUPID situation by
f1's hopeless rules and the fia's pathetic band-aid rulemaking
This is going to have no good ending...

DriverT · 24 Sep 2003, 17:10 (Ref:728895)

Well, well, here was I thinking team orders are illegal... nobody in their right mind in any of the teams would ever admit to it.

Knowlesy · 24 Sep 2003, 17:42 (Ref:728929)

The thing is though, I don't think anyone would really mind team orders at this stage of the year. It makes sense.

Austria 2002 was bad because of a number of factors: the stage of the year, the cynicism of the move, the podium scenes and press conferences, Jean Todts attitude afterwards, the fact that there was simply no need for team orders in such a dominant car etc.......

Who would really have a problem with subtle team orders at this late stage of the season. I could understand someone having a problem if Ralf slowed on the line like Rubens did.

ANd it's unavoidable. There will be some form of team orders this weekend. It may be in the race or it may manifest itself in qualifying.......ie - make Ralfs car a little heavier, thus slowing him a little.

Led ZeppF1 · 25 Sep 2003, 04:07 (Ref:729333)

Quote:

Originally posted by Gt_R
It's funny nobody crucify Frank for what he said - "for the good of the Championship"

It's a question of degree.

"If Ralf stopped Juan winning the title, everyone would murder us," Frank Williams admits. "It's a question of degree."

http://www.pitpass.com/news2/news.cfm?newsid=7504)

Led ZeppF1 · 25 Sep 2003, 04:09 (Ref:729334)

IMHO, team orders are also different when only one of your cars has a chance at WDC versus the first race of the year where Ferrari says the number 2 car is mathematically eliminated from the championship.

Williams gives equal support and treatment to both drivers. There are no team orders until one of the drivers is out from the championship.

At Ferrari team orders are used as soon as the first race to ensure that Schumacher wins the championship.

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