Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Baltic Touring Car Championship Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Touring Car Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 Apr 2005, 03:01 (Ref:1278489)   #51
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by touringlegend
Just wondering why we're talking about Chevy's being rebranded Vauxhalls here ?

Chevrolet have their model line up (formerly Daewoo) and Vauxhall have there's. The two makes do not sell each other's rebadged models.
It seems GM's strategy has changed. Before Chevy was a US/South America brand while other countries had their own "national" brand? Right now, GM has decided to push Chevy in Europe? If GM only raced a Chevy in the BTCC and DTC in Germany, would Vauxhall (in Britain) and Opel (in Germany) feel a bit jealous? Or would they pursue a different motorsports avenue like rallying?

Before, GM must have saved a lof money racing the Vectra in the UK as the Vauxhall, Opel in Germany and Chevy in South America.

GM would never allow a S2000 Vauxhall Astra to face off against their own S2000 Chevy Lancetti. There's been ongoing debate if having your own divisions compete against each other is a good idea?
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 07:20 (Ref:1278596)   #52
Super Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Super Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
United Kingdom
East Anglia
Posts: 4,304
Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
RML has mentioned selling customer cars in 2006, if that happened we could see an S2000 Chevy against the BTC Astra.

Vauxhall only exists as a brand in the UK, so far GM has resisted the obvious temptation to rebrand it as Opel for Europe wide synergy. Possibly GM feel that Vauxhall has too much heritage and brand loyalty to risk.

By rebranding Daewoo as Chevy they achieved the reverse, adding heritage and image to a weaker brand.

I think it's an important point that we will see more consolidation in the car market, but I don't believe that brand conflict is such an issue. Even though they may own competing brands, car each one has their own identity and market place. Most viewers and car buyers won't know that Vauxhall and Chevy are owned by the same company.

If you took competing interests to it's logical conclusion, you wouldn't have a VW and Seat dealership in the same town, yet quite often they will be in the same road.

On the point about competing divisions in motorsport. Looking at the Vaxuhall/Chevy case, even if they were racing the same spec car (S2000) they are appealing to different buyers - no one is going to choose between a Lacetti and an Astra Sportshatch as a car purchase. Each is sending out a different message.

Vauxhall is pushing it's VXR brand to tell you that it doesn't just cater for the company car market, whilst Chevy are announcing their arrival and creating a sportier image for the cars.
Super Tourer is offline  
__________________
'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....'
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 07:33 (Ref:1278603)   #53
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Tourer
RML has mentioned selling customer cars in 2006, if that happened we could see an S2000 Chevy against the BTC Astra.
The logic again can be argued both ways, if Vauxhall pulls out officially so the BTC Astra won't be a Works car. OTOH, Vauxhall could price the BTC Astra out of the BTCC. At a later date, they could sell it for Formula Saloons or whatever... We'll see what GM decides. But now that the Chevy brand is being pushed worldwide, it's a shame we won't be seeing a WTCC race here in NA. NA is the home turf for Chevy! Blame it on Nascar!! Sighh...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Tourer
On the point about competing divisions in motorsport. Looking at the Vaxuhall/Chevy case, even if they were racing the same spec car (S2000) they are appealing to different buyers - no one is going to choose between a Lacetti and an Astra Sportshatch as a car purchase. Each is sending out a different message.
If only the GM/car makers management depts can be as open minded, we'll see the Focus/Mondeo racing against VolvoS40/Mazda6!!! Renault versus Nissan!
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 12:53 (Ref:1278857)   #54
md28
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Dorset
Posts: 14
md28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Vauxhall is seen by GM as it's lead European brand now, ahead of Opel and Chevrolet. Therefore they are having more say and development of the cars, resulting in the ever increasing VXR range.

GM is also pushing VX and Opel upmarket with the takeover and rebranding of Daewoo > Chevrolet, so theoretically they aren't competing for the same place, but I still can't imagine both competing at the same time.
md28 is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 17:09 (Ref:1279076)   #55
redshoes
Veteran
 
redshoes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 8,881
redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!redshoes is going for a new world record!
On a works level I doubt we'll see it happen. I think the point ST was trying to make was that RML want to sell customer cars so assuming the price is right you could see an independent Chevrolet against work and indie Vauxhalls.
redshoes is offline  
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 17:59 (Ref:1279101)   #56
CallumC
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Scotland
Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 17
CallumC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by md28
Vauxhall is seen by GM as it's lead European brand now, ahead of Opel and Chevrolet.
Daft question but how can vauxhall be seen as it's leading brand over opel, ok it's perhaps a more prestigous name but they sell the same cars and there's at most 3 places (if that) in the world they sell it as vauxhall.
CallumC is offline  
__________________
It's cos i'm Scottish
Quote
Old 15 Apr 2005, 21:41 (Ref:1279219)   #57
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,946
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Vauxhall may not sell as many cars as Opel does due to it's vast size, but perhaps Vauxhall have a far larger market share. Perhaps I'm saying, it should be of course they have a big market share - you just need to look at the sales charts for each month!
touringlegend is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 00:48 (Ref:1279339)   #58
Silk Cut Jaguar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
United Kingdom
Bath, UK
Posts: 1,349
Silk Cut Jaguar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSilk Cut Jaguar should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Vauxhall is a huge brand in the UK and always sell fairly strongly, GM want to keep that tradition going. No better place to market the goods than in the UK's biggest series. It's as simple as that really, they'd gain nothing from racing the Chevy's locally when they can hit every shore in Europe simply by doing the WTCC.
Silk Cut Jaguar is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1279486)   #59
CallumC
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Scotland
Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 17
CallumC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
fair enough! makes more sense now! lol
CallumC is offline  
__________________
It's cos i'm Scottish
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 10:56 (Ref:1279529)   #60
+ its a Chevy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
London
Posts: 26
+ its a Chevy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think Silk Cut Jaguar has hit the nail on the head. Vauxhall is GM's strongest brand in the UK by a mile and therefore they want to keep pushing for dominance and name awareness on home territory. The Chevrolet rebranding has been exercised to eliminate the bad press/name awareness of the Daewoo range. some of the european Daewoo range have been sold in NA for a while now, namely the Aveo which is the largest seller in its segment. Over here its the Kalos and hardly anyone has a clue what it is. With the rebranding in teh UK to Chevrolet , this aligns Chevrolets European stance in that this is GM's 'entry level' brand - value for money. Why race in a uk only series when they can get coverage across the whole of europe.

i dont know the whole ins and outs but would presume that as Opel is a german based manufacturer, they would follow the same philosophy in sticking to the DTM???
+ its a Chevy is offline  
__________________
Head down, A@*s up and we're off !!!
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 14:13 (Ref:1279639)   #61
md28
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Dorset
Posts: 14
md28 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by CallumC
Daft question but how can vauxhall be seen as it's leading brand over opel, ok it's perhaps a more prestigous name but they sell the same cars and there's at most 3 places (if that) in the world they sell it as vauxhall.
This fact was stated in an official Vauxhall club magazine, so I can't see it being false.

Vauxhall is a UK only brand I believe now, not sold anywhere else.
md28 is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 15:38 (Ref:1279674)   #62
+ its a Chevy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
London
Posts: 26
+ its a Chevy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Correct, Vauxhall is only sold to the English and Northern Ireland markets. In the Republic of Ireland its Opel as it is in most of Europe. In Australia, the brand is Holden. In the Uk, Vauxhall market the Monaro as a Vauxhall when its pretty much a Holden with a GM Corvette 6.0ltr engine on board. The old Omega was marketed as the Holden Commodore in Aus.

The idea of re-naming Vauxhall to Opel was touted a few years back but pretty much binned instantly as Vauxhall was/is a well known marque, much more so in the UK than either Holden or Opel.
+ its a Chevy is offline  
__________________
Head down, A@*s up and we're off !!!
Quote
Old 16 Apr 2005, 20:56 (Ref:1279793)   #63
touringlegend
Race Official
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Panama
Posts: 8,946
touringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridtouringlegend should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Vauxhall is also sold in Scotland and Wales, to save any confusion from the above post...
touringlegend is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1280181)   #64
+ its a Chevy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
London
Posts: 26
+ its a Chevy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Apologies, touringlegend is quite correct!! excuse my english bias.....
+ its a Chevy is offline  
__________________
Head down, A@*s up and we're off !!!
Quote
Old 17 Apr 2005, 22:58 (Ref:1280738)   #65
Hazard
Veteran
 
Hazard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Posts: 5,710
Hazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridHazard should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by + its a Chevy
Correct, Vauxhall is only sold to the English and Northern Ireland markets. In the Republic of Ireland its Opel as it is in most of Europe. In Australia, the brand is Holden. In the Uk, Vauxhall market the Monaro as a Vauxhall when its pretty much a Holden with a GM Corvette 6.0ltr engine on board. The old Omega was marketed as the Holden Commodore in Aus.

The idea of re-naming Vauxhall to Opel was touted a few years back but pretty much binned instantly as Vauxhall was/is a well known marque, much more so in the UK than either Holden or Opel.
For the sake of note, the 'Vauxhall Monaro VXR' isnt' even a Holden Monaro - It's a HSV GTO. (IMO the 'Holden' Monaro is far prettier).

I don't believe the Vauxhall Omega has ever really equated as a Holden machine...I believe the Astra & Corsa are sold as 'SMART like' cars in Australia with a Holden badge

A new Holden just on the market (the Torana) will probably be marketed in the UK at some point as the new Vauxhall Omega.

But back to the point...yeah, we'll have Vauxhall's forever...I don't really understand the Daewoo - Chevrolet thing myself...it's sort of devaluing the Chevy brand rather than 'upping' the Daewoo...it's been proved that decent competition and product can turn a marque around better than a cheap rebadging exercise (okay, Nissan got away with it with Datsun!) - but VW turned Skoda around without calling them 'Audi Jnr's' or something...Skoda just came in the top 3 in the JD Power survey.

(I still wouldn't get one, thus destroying the point I tried to make!)

Last edited by Hazard; 17 Apr 2005 at 23:00.
Hazard is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Apr 2005, 06:57 (Ref:1280918)   #66
Super Tourer
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Super Tourer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
United Kingdom
East Anglia
Posts: 4,304
Super Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSuper Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think the issue with Daewoo and Chevy, is that Daewoo cars eminated out of the Daewoo group which makes everything from DVD players to Diggers. So GM wanted to break the association.

With your Skoda/VAG example it was much more clear cut, Skoda was only recognised outside it's home country as a car maker.
Super Tourer is offline  
__________________
'I've seen it, but still don't believe it.....'
Quote
Old 25 Apr 2005, 16:08 (Ref:1287044)   #67
Valker
Veteran
 
Valker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Finland
Tampere, Finland
Posts: 1,208
Valker should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by touringlegend
Chevrolet have their model line up (formerly Daewoo) and Vauxhall have there's. The two makes do not sell each other's rebadged models.
Actually there is one car that is sold as Vauxhall, Opel and Chevy (and maybe Holden too?). VAZ (manufacturer of Lada) bulids Opel in Russia and it's sold as Chevrolet Viva. link
Valker is offline  
Quote
Old 25 Apr 2005, 20:30 (Ref:1287316)   #68
andy_b
Veteran
 
andy_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Canada
Vancouver (I escaped from UK)
Posts: 2,594
andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!
to clarify. Although they make looks similar the Omega and Holden Commodore share very few parts. Even the chassis is quite a bit wider.

Anyway, Holden do market the Astra, Vectra and Corsa in Australia, while to confuse things a couple of Holdens are badged as Buick's in China and Chevrolet's in Dubai.

However, I'm not aware of any Daewoo products being marketed as Vauxhall or an Opel?

Having worked for the company on a project, it wasnt the association with DVD players (they do lots more than that). The reason was after the collapse a few years ago, Daewoo got a bad name, prior to that, its customer base was loyal. Once GM took full control, they wanted to try and standardise things so as half the Daewoo's are available in North America as Chevrolets, and that brand no longer had a presence in Europe, that suited the bill perfect. Chevt has an appalling image in the US, while in Europe, Chevy has a much better image....much better than Daewoo

As for the Monaro. Think of HSV like AMG. The base car is made by Holden, then HSV tune it and bodykit it. In Oz, this is marketed as two vehicles, but in the UK its two models.
andy_b is offline  
__________________
---> 2017 Spotter Guides - Le Mans live from 10th June! IMSA WeatherTech, Continental, Porsche GT3 Cup USA, Canada, Lamborghini Super Trofeo NA and Europe also available<---
Quote
Old 25 Apr 2005, 20:34 (Ref:1287321)   #69
andy_b
Veteran
 
andy_b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Canada
Vancouver (I escaped from UK)
Posts: 2,594
andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!andy_b is going for a new world record!
for reference.

Vauxhall Opel products sold elsewhere with different names.
Holden - Corsa (Barilla), Astra and Vectra
Chevrolet Colbalt and Pontiac Pursuit is loosely based on the new Astra
Saturn Saloon is loosely based on the last generation Vectra

GM Daewoo/Chevy Europe products, know in the UK, sold in North America
Kaloss sold as Chevrolet Aveo, a Pontiac and a Suzuki
Lacetti sold as a Chevrolet Optra and as a Suzuki
Nasty big Daewoo we dont get is sold as a Chevrolet Epsilon and a Suzuki
andy_b is offline  
__________________
---> 2017 Spotter Guides - Le Mans live from 10th June! IMSA WeatherTech, Continental, Porsche GT3 Cup USA, Canada, Lamborghini Super Trofeo NA and Europe also available<---
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2005, 02:59 (Ref:1287540)   #70
kmchow
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location:
Vancouver, BC, CANADA
Posts: 3,919
kmchow should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Don't forget the Vectra is also being sold in NA as the Chevy Malibu. However, our "Vectra" has a different front end than the Euro version.

http://www.gmcanada.com/english/vehi...vrolet/malibu/
http://www.dtm.de/bild.en.php?bild=f...042.jpg&id=117

The rear of the car is the same for Europe/NA. For some reason, GM thought the Euro Vectra's front end could use some tweaking for NA audiences?? Go figure!

Last edited by kmchow; 26 Apr 2005 at 03:03.
kmchow is offline  
__________________
Supertouring Forever and Ever...
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2005, 10:20 (Ref:1287742)   #71
+ its a Chevy
Rookie
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
England
London
Posts: 26
+ its a Chevy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
One of the biggest reasons for the Daewoo/Chevrolet name change (over the 'bad name' that Daewoo had) was the fact that although GM 'bought out' Daewoo motors, they never actually owned the brand name and as other posts have quite rightly said, Daewoo are a massive industrial company building anything from fridges to oil tankers, Dvd players to Oil drilling rigs. The re-branding was essentially to distance the cars from the name which as said previously had become somewhat tarnished in the marketplace.
+ its a Chevy is offline  
__________________
Head down, A@*s up and we're off !!!
Quote
Old 26 Apr 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1287746)   #72
cybersdorf
Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Austria
Vienna, Austria
Posts: 3,580
cybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcybersdorf should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Incidentally, why is there suddenly an Opel in BTCC?
cybersdorf is offline  
__________________
Oops
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2005, 07:43 (Ref:1288296)   #73
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersdorf
Incidentally, why is there suddenly an Opel in BTCC?

Is there?
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2005, 09:32 (Ref:1288360)   #74
CallumC
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Scotland
Preston, Lancashire
Posts: 17
CallumC should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
888 tested with an opel badge during the winter, when they were out at mangy cours, one car had that, one had the "V" style and one had a large vauxhall crest thingy!
CallumC is offline  
__________________
It's cos i'm Scottish
Quote
Old 27 Apr 2005, 16:34 (Ref:1288676)   #75
Kicking-back
Registered User
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,661
Kicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridKicking-back should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
OK, but there's not an Opel "in the BTCC"!
Kicking-back is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
UAW-GM Quality 500 fullSPEED NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 1 14 Oct 2005 17:20
UAW-GM Quality 500 fullSPEED NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 10 21 Oct 2004 08:57
Where is the quality? spider ChampCar World Series 20 12 Mar 2004 12:33
Overtaker of the year (quantity) Adam43 Formula One 41 11 Dec 2003 18:57
Quality not quantity... Crash Test ChampCar World Series 10 21 Mar 2002 10:02


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.