[Team] Williams: Do they have a spare tub?

[P38 in workshop]

Call me a cynic if you wish but I do wonder whether there might be a few clauses about freeing up a promising driver if the providers of the gearbox should find themselves in need of one in the near future.Say three months time....

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Call me a cynic if you wish but I do wonder whether there might be a few clauses about freeing up a promising driver if the providers of the gearbox should find themselves in need of one in the near future.Say three months time....

You're saying it, as if Mercedes aren't happy with one of their drivers.

[Adam43]

Or, as Williams has new ownership they are changing their mind about whether to dogmatically stick to making their own when there is a cheaper and better solution.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

You're saying it, as if Mercedes aren't happy with one of their drivers.

As I understand it they only have one actual,contracted driver at the moment.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It's worth mentioning that Sir Frank has recently been hospitalized. No details but personally I wish him well.

I suspect the real reason for the family exiting the team was to tidy up their financial and business affairs due to Frank's poor health and the issues his passing would present if they still held the F1 team. I could be wrong but that seems a reasonable assumption to me.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Or, as Williams has new ownership they are changing their mind about whether to dogmatically stick to making their own when there is a cheaper and better solution.

With the coming contraction of team personnel due to the new funding restrictions I see this as a first step in that process. From all reports the team has a huge number of employees for very little result on the grid.

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

It's the change of management and thus team's entire philosophy. The Williams family was hell bent on preserving what remained of an old school F1 constructor. Now that MO will be sacrificed to more easily achieve shorter term success, and along with that philosophy some of the team's expertise and skills will be lost too. This trend has wiped out most of motor sport constructors by now and is catching up with F1 too. It's just that Williams were stubborn in trying to go the path they couldn't really afford anymore.

The Williams constructing capacity could then be redeployed to building customer Formula 4 cars, LMP2 cars, classic Formula 3s and so on perhaps? Williams could, first, be a worthy competitor to the likes of Oreca and Ligier-Onroak and then eventually, perhaps, dethrone Dallara as the premier constructor of customer racing cars?

The Williams Formula Two chassis:


I think their gearbox division should have retooled from F1, to instead compete with the likes of Hewland, Sadev, X-Trac and so on in the customer motorsport space years ago...

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Williams constructing capacity could then be redeployed to building customer Formula 4 cars, LMP2 cars, classic Formula 3s and so on perhaps? Williams could, first, be a worthy competitor to the likes of Oreca and Ligier-Onroak and then eventually, perhaps, dethrone Dallara as the premier constructor of customer racing cars?

The Williams Formula Two chassis:


I think their gearbox division should have retooled from F1, to instead compete with the likes of Hewland, Sadev, X-Trac and so on in the customer motorsport space years ago...

Coulda woulda shoulda!

I think that would have been a great strategy years ago. It would have diversified the business (at least beyond just one series). But they focused purely on F1. What does the new owners want to do? My guess, the same. Focus on just F1.

Originally Posted by Casper

With the coming contraction of team personnel due to the new funding restrictions I see this as a first step in that process. From all reports the team has a huge number of employees for very little result on the grid.

Will Williams be impacted by cost caps? I thought they were well below the proposed limits. I think a few teams are reported to be below the limits.

Richard

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Williams constructing capacity could then be redeployed to building customer Formula 4 cars, LMP2 cars, classic Formula 3s and so on perhaps? Williams could, first, be a worthy competitor to the likes of Oreca and Ligier-Onroak and then eventually, perhaps, dethrone Dallara as the premier constructor of customer racing cars?

The Williams Formula Two chassis:


I think their gearbox division should have retooled from F1, to instead compete with the likes of Hewland, Sadev, X-Trac and so on in the customer motorsport space years ago...

I'd imagine competition in tenders of varied levels of transparency is a bit different to competition against the stopwatch on the track. Mr. Lawrence Tomlinson probably has a few choice words on the matter.

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

The Williams constructing capacity could then be redeployed to building customer Formula 4 cars, LMP2 cars, classic Formula 3s and so on perhaps? Williams could, first, be a worthy competitor to the likes of Oreca and Ligier-Onroak and then eventually, perhaps, dethrone Dallara as the premier constructor of customer racing cars?

The Williams Formula Two chassis:


I think their gearbox division should have retooled from F1, to instead compete with the likes of Hewland, Sadev, X-Trac and so on in the customer motorsport space years ago...

Nice idea but where is there any opportunity to deviate from spec car single seater racing?LMP2 only has four approved constructors and the other GT categories use road cars with a bit of development.On the other hand ,there are probably more people employed in Formula 1 alone than were ever employed in the days of freedom in other categories.To give an idea of how limited it is,I read a recent overview of Dallara-for some time the racing car constructor with the largest build capacity and several exclusive series to build for.They have a capacity of 200 cars per year.I don't know quite how this compares with the combined output of Ralt,Martini,Teynard,Tatuus,March,van Dieman,Swift,Eagle and Lola in bygone times.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

Nice idea but where is there any opportunity to deviate from spec car single seater racing?LMP2 only has four approved constructors and the other GT categories use road cars with a bit of development.On the other hand ,there are probably more people employed in Formula 1 alone than were ever employed in the days of freedom in other categories.To give an idea of how limited it is,I read a recent overview of Dallara-for some time the racing car constructor with the largest build capacity and several exclusive series to build for.They have a capacity of 200 cars per year.I don't know quite how this compares with the combined output of Ralt,Martini,Teynard,Tatuus,March,van Dieman,Swift,Eagle and Lola in bygone times.

Very interesting question and worth of its own thread in the club racing section.

Van Diemen probably made more cars than people imagine as they sold into the US for their FF2000 series, a lot of the regional country FF series and were often the race school car of choice. Tatus were big in the F Renault days as the spec chassis I recall. Probably a nearer answer is in your question, as the main feeder series have largely become single car maker and largely Dallara, the 200 cars per year is probably the equivalent to perhaps what Lola and Tatus combined would have built?

An interesting website on the history of f3 manufacturers below.

http://www.f3history.co.uk/Manufactu...rd/reynard.htm

[peebee2]

Dallara is massive but these days don’t build as many chassis as you might think, as they don’t do that many series any more and most cars do several seasons. Really, it’s a spares business which is where the money is.

Tatuus probably make far more cars as they do most F4 series, most regional F3 series and W series etc. But, again, there’s little money in selling cars - the money is in the spares.

Not sure the Williams JP F2 would inspire them. It was a shockingly badly-designed product that could hardly be driven the first time it ran. It took a lot of work, over several years, to make it the fairly poor end product it eventually was. Showed them that it wasn’t anywhere as easy as they thought!

[andy97]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Not sure the Williams JP F2 would inspire them. It was a shockingly badly-designed product that could hardly be driven the first time it ran. It took a lot of work, over several years, to make it the fairly poor end product it eventually was. Showed them that it wasn’t anywhere as easy as they thought!

Didnt the JP F2 cars get reused as the “experience cars” at Bedford?

[Adam43]

Is that what they put the Ford/Jaguar V6 in?

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Is that what they put the Ford/Jaguar V6 in?

That was the Zeus chassis that JP bought I think?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Who do you reckon on being swept away first?

All the overpaid “cruisers” of which there are many who don’t care if they win or lose as long as the bank account is full

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Is that what they put the Ford/Jaguar V6 in?

No, as well as the Zeus they put that in the old FPAs.

JP did a mega-deal to sell the decade or more old FPAs out to the gulf IIRC.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by andy97

Didnt the JP F2 cars get reused as the “experience cars” at Bedford?

No don’t think so. They did a deal with someone to sell them as F1-level track day cars. Not sure that was overly successful as F1 cars actually didn’t have Audi road car engines in.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

That was the Zeus chassis that JP bought I think?

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by peebee2

No, as well as the Zeus they put that in the old FPAs.

JP did a mega-deal to sell the decade or more old FPAs out to the gulf IIRC.

Thanks.

[Moneyseeker]

Interesting piece on Claire Williams and the sale of Williams.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/claire...ancial-stress/

Williams said two elements were behind the decision. “The first was saving the team,” she said. “When I say saving the team, I mean ensuring people had the security of their job, that the team existed or survived for their benefit.”

The second reason was personal. “I wanted to make sure my dad came out of it with money to show for his work – not that he would have cared,” she said.

“My dad’s never taken a penny out of the team over the years. I wanted to ensure he had something to show for his legacy.

[peebee2]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

“My dad’s never taken a penny out of the team over the years. I wanted to ensure he had something to show for his legacy.” [/I]

Lol, of course he hasn’t.

And let’s not forget when BCE gave the team owners £10m. The owners, not the team.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Interesting piece on Claire Williams and the sale of Williams.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/claire...ancial-stress/

Williams said two elements were behind the decision. “The first was saving the team,” she said. “When I say saving the team, I mean ensuring people had the security of their job, that the team existed or survived for their benefit.”

The second reason was personal. “I wanted to make sure my dad came out of it with money to show for his work – not that he would have cared,” she said.

“My dad’s never taken a penny out of the team over the years. I wanted to ensure he had something to show for his legacy.

What? How is this possible? How has he lived?!! Also I bet La Clare cannot say the same......

[Adam43]

Obviously money to live.

Whatever, I believe the sentiment that Frank’s priority was more for the team than his personal bank account is correct.

Claire’s priority seems to be more to look after her family. Fair enough too.

And we get to judge this and pick at what they say on the internet. We’re all maximizing our priorities. Everyone wins.

[peebee2]

I don’t object to someone taking money out a business they founded and ran. Obviously they need funds to pay for their life.

But to deny it seems a bit silly and childish.

[chillibowl]

for me as an outsider watching the sport for decades, i havent seen anything to suggest that SFW took more from F1 then he contributed to it.

personally i wish there were more SFW's in the sport.