Can somebody explain the HSCC Guards Trophy?

[DaveGT6]

Looking around for possible series/championships to run in and one I'm looking at is the HSCC Guards Trophy but I'm at a loss to understand the point of it. Watched the finals at Silverstone and it was a great race. The Chevrons were awesome and put on a great show - I wish I could afford one. However, they don't score points so actually are irrelevant in the race. The commentators made no mention during the race of any of the cars that were actually racing for points which surely is the whole objective? Seems like two completely unrelated races in one and as the spectacular cars don't actually participate in the championship it seems quite perverse?

Or maybe I'm missing something?

[terence]

Gridfillers?

[simon drabble]

Terry is partially correct as of course they are an invitation class but the view is that they sit well with the other cars.
Personally I would prefer if it was kept strictly pre 66 but as Dave says they are not scoring points.

[terence]

But from another point the invited are probably spoiling the race for others?

[simon drabble]

There were two Lotus 23b's that split the B8's so it is wrong to say that they are untouchable. Its a catch 22, if enough pre 66 cars entered they would run two races as they do for the Gold Cup meeting.
In terms of spoiling the race I dont think they do as you know who you are racing against - my race was in no ways spolit by their inclusion.
Now out of interest was the Griffith racing current or old FIA spec? It seemed to run big wheel arches and a hump on the bonnet

[zefarelly]

Strikes me Guards is a bit like Top Hat used to be, a fairly relaxed affair thats fun for all, at a club/national level there's no where else to play with most of those toys

[Belmondo]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Now out of interest was the Griffith racing current or old FIA spec? It seemed to run big wheel arches and a hump on the bonnet

That Griffith is a joke, no? Surely none ever looked like that in period?

[zefarelly]

I think Blackpools finest have their own special forum/threads

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by terence bower

But from another point the invited are probably spoiling the race for others?

Shame really, a man I know sold a Chevron B21/Cosworth BDG, simply because there were no events apart from 2 Masters afterthought's to run in. Plenty over the ditch of course, but the time involved prevented this option for the chap. Now HSCC are planning a series but again most events involve the ditch once again. So B8's become grid fillers. I do understand Dave GT6's and Terences' point with the commentary and position of point scoring cars. Also with 20 minute events, I see B8 invovlement the waste of one of the finest 2litre long distance sports race cars' ever produced. Suppose I understand WSCM Lola T70 truck owners not wanting B21/23's/26's with BDG's and the like competing, as in the right hands...

[one-two]

You can theorise all you like, and you are entitled to do so, but the bottom line is that the grids are full. For more than a few of us, it's some of the best racing around. I watched the race at the weekend and thought it was brilliant

[iconway]

Dave, as a competitor and (last weekend) a spectator I couldn't agree more about Guards looking like two unrelated races in one. The old Classic Sports Car series was a lot closer, but due to falling entries the Sports Racers were brought into the fold and the Guards Trophy series was born.

In fairness the original Guards races were dominated by SRs: take a look at the entry list for Brands Hatch 1962 (http://www.racingsportscars.com/phot...8-06-4892.html), Maserati 151, Lister-Jag, Lister-Costin, D-Type, Ferrari 246, Ferrari 250 (TR and SWB), Cooper Monaco, Lotus 15, Lotus 23 and so on. By the late 60s the grids were full of T70s, GT40s, Lotuses and Chevrons. Being Devil's advocate for a minute, it could be argued that the SRs are truer to the spirit of the original series than the rest of us in GT cars.

I missed the Gold Cup, which was the first time the GTs and SRs have had separate races but hopefully not the last. You could also look into Historic Road Sports, see www.hscc.org.uk for series regs. Much more level playing field and a nice bunch of people too!

[simon drabble]

I would hope no one has problems with the pre 66 SR's as a well driven 26R or Cobra or similar will match them and in the case of the Cobra (or GT40 - early ones) beat them?!

[turbster]

Originally Posted by Belmondo

That Griffith is a joke, no? Surely none ever looked like that in period?

Looks like it's the latest FIA and yes they did, or should I say, it did...

[simon drabble]

In which case I don't understand the fuss from owners about making Griffiths legal - that was a very quick car

[Teddington Ted]

Having been Mr Grumpy about Guards earlier in the season I'd like to say what a great race it was to take part in on Saturday. I had a very enjoyable ding dong with Ben Adams in the Turner which will have me grinning through the winter months.

I was also encouraged by the comments from Chris at the drivers' meeting about more split grids if it makes sense to do so.

Mark

[zefarelly]

there certainly seems to be the cars and entrants, so split grids should work.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by iconway

By the late 60s the grids were full of T70s, GT40s, Lotuses and Chevrons. Being Devil's advocate for a minute, it could be argued that the SRs are truer to the spirit of the original series than the rest of us in GT cars.

True, do not remember over too many GT40's/T70's at the 'Palace Guards' if any, plenty of B6,7,8's, Konigs' Nomad. interspaced with the odd E, indecently quick Davrian, Roger Nathans' Astra, without delving into the loft.

[simon drabble]

Ben told me he had a great battle with you - for a lad still at school he shows great maturity on the track as indeed I hope his mate, my son, does as well.

In common with any well run series Guards races' have great battles all along the field. As One two wrote earlier they have attracted decent grids at every race - next season I would be surprised if I do any other races (unless I catch the selectors eye for Goodwood!!!)

[Everilda]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

There were two Lotus 23b's that split the B8's so it is wrong to say that they are untouchable. Its a catch 22, if enough pre 66 cars entered they would run two races as they do for the Gold Cup meeting.
In terms of spoiling the race I dont think they do as you know who you are racing against - my race was in no ways spolit by their inclusion.
Now out of interest was the Griffith racing current or old FIA spec? It seemed to run big wheel arches and a hump on the bonnet

To answer your question the Griff has been re-built to current FIA spec.
The FIA approved bodywork is from the same body molds as the Jon Shipman and Malcolm Johnson cars.
Both of these cars have competed in the last two Spa 6 hr races with this bodywork.

[morninggents]

I remember going to watch the Guards Trophy races at Croft in the '60s and the field was mainly sports racers - McLaren M1, Lotus 30, Attila Chev, Cooper Chev, Lola T70 Spyder, etc. I don't remember too many GTs racing then.
However, the current Guards races seem very popular with drivers and spectators and certainly the HSCC seems very happy with the response from both the sports racing and GT/sportscar entrants. And the racing is close through the field in the races I've seen.
Presumably the Chevron B6/B8 and Ginetta G16, Lenham, etc will also be eligible for the new HSCC 2 litre sports racer series and it will be interesting to see if any of those currently racing in Guards will change to the new series.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Everilda

To answer your question the Griff has been re-built to current FIA spec.
The FIA approved bodywork is from the same body molds as the Jon Shipman and Malcolm Johnson cars.
Both of these cars have competed in the last two Spa 6 hr races with this bodywork.

Thats quite correct,only thing is that the FIA have made themselves a laughing stock now by allowing such cars to have HTPs.[Plenty having already been discussed in these pages]

[zefarelly]

Originally Posted by Everilda

To answer your question the Griff has been re-built to current FIA spec.
The FIA approved bodywork is from the same body molds as the Jon Shipman and Malcolm Johnson cars.
Both of these cars have competed in the last two Spa 6 hr races with this bodywork.

Thats nice to know, especially as the 6 hour is the pinnacle of period correct/FiA compliance

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Thats quite correct,only thing is that the FIA have made themselves a laughing stock now by allowing such cars to have HTPs.[Plenty having already been discussed in these pages]

Ad infinitum, Terence, until such times as a stand is taken and adhered to.

[terence]

Problem being that the FIA really do not seem to care anyway [apart from one!]. Thing I find REALLY strange is that if these Mod Sports cars had been built in France,theres no way they [amongst many others] would have got HTPs!. However,better get get to the topic.

[john ruston]

A Merlyn has won a Guards Trophy race overall.It happens.
Grids are full,Many Pre 66 racers about.
B8's can do CER,Masters and HSCC along with Ginettas and stuff.



Leave the grids alone and HSCC run these new 2 litre races but 40 min minimum not less.

Several CER drivers are thinking of doing those races rather than CER

Its going to be calender problems rather than types of races that are the problem especially with this new Spa weekend at end of May which will effect Masters Brands and knock on effect 3 hrs.

Many new rules in CER,not all sensible.

Todays ramble