Elva Mk1

[francoisb]

Hi all,
I'm french owner of an ELVA MK1 , and I'm searching history about it.
Reputed to be 110/42 (FIA papers), it seems to be a late number for a MK1.No chassis plate.
Lightweight facon body, originally fitted with a 1100 climax.
Front is similar to MK2 elva, but rear is live axle.

Previous owner known: 3 french guys, and before Alan Baillie, mike Kirkman, Anthony and Carolyn Taylor.

Anthony bought it in "a great old house into the cheltenham area, in "basket case "condition, in late 70's.He doesn't remember more.

Someone to have an idea about the previous owner?

Informations about MK 1B/MK2 differencies during production ?About lightweight falcon bodies?

How much MK1 still known?

Thanks for all, whatever.
François

[John Turner]

Welcome, francoisb,

As with all these threads starting with a single chassis looking for history, it's best to post first in the main forum. If this develops into a wider history of more Elva Mk1 chassis, then it will probably return to the archive, but for now I'm placing it in the History forum.

[francoisb]

Of course, John, you're right.
History (Anthony Taylor previous owner, near Cheltenham) is most important fact.
But after, serial number will be important also (true or false?I need other MK1 numbers known).It's you to see what's better!Thanks.

François.

I already made a mistake: bad memory: it's 041, not 042, on FIA papers!

[John Fielden]

Francois
your English is as good as my French. What I know you meant to say was that Anthony bought the car engineless from "a grand old house near Cheltenham". What are needed are suggestions as to where (and who) that might be. As it was over 20 years ago AT cannot remember either address or vendor. Elva Racing has been asked
John

[bauble]

Francois; did you know that the name Elva is an anglicised version of Elle Va, French for 'She Goes'?

That is if my old memory serves me correctly.

[francoisb]

Thanks, John, and your French is better my poor English!

About "ELVA" it's true: and some said it was after Nichols tried the first car at CHARADE, in France ("most beautiful track ever", said Jim Clark.)

It seems that an ex-works MK1 was for sale on E-bay last week:more informations?

[francoisb]

Is it true some racers in the 50's were asking more rear live axle than "de dion" for track use? (in fact, my car seems more to be a MK2, serial number would be better...but normally de dion fitted).
Thanks.

[John Fielden]

Originally Posted by francoisb

Is it true some racers in the 50's were asking more rear live axle than "de dion" for track use? (in fact, my car seems more to be a MK2, serial number would be better...but normally de dion fitted).
Thanks.

Francois
When you first began to look for the history of your car, I think I commented that some of the Elvas were an absolute "handful", the place this was especially noticable was at Druids corner at Oulton. Druids is a double apex corner which needs to be taken in one sweep. The Elvas seemed to trip themselves up part way through the sweep, changing from neutrality to sudden roll oversteer. I speak about Elva Sports Racers as an observer not a driver having only ever driven a Courier which was too short in the cockpit for me.

[francoisb]

It's true, John...but was it better with rear live axle...or worst?-)!
François

[robrace]

Bonjour.are you sure the car is an Elva!..I owned 3 Elva Mk 1's in the early 70's.inc Elva's 1955 works car.I fully restored this car but did'nt like it's handling and sold it before I became the second driver to get killed in it!.When I was looking for a Falcon bodyshell for one of my Mk 1's someone contacted me who claimed he had the Falcon bodyshell off the 1956 works car and had a log book for it.He wanted to come and copy my chassis but I said no!.As it is 30 years ago I can't remember all the details but am sure he did'nt have anything else of the car.I also went to look at another reported Elva Mk1 but
found it had many square tubes in it's chassis and although it resembled an Elva it was'nt one but probably a 1950's special of which there where many.
If it is definatly a Mk 1 good luck with your restoration.Two of my old cars are regulary being used on the track one with a Climax engine and one with a Elva overhead conversion 100e.Their owners must appreciate their handling more that I did!! regards bob saunders

[francoisb]

Interesting, Bob.
Have you more information about this guy (even in private message).Did he lived near Cheltenham?
The body seems to be really an ex works (lightweight)...and it's true the chassis is...just between MK1 and MK2!
Do you think at last he used an existing chassis, or made one for this body?
Great thanks.
François

[John Fielden]

Bob
We have (Francois & myself) already had some information on a Works lightweight body which was sold into Holland in 1956. The chassis from that ex works car was retained by Peter Coleman and bodied in "Lotus 7 fashion".
The car was then sold on and eventually rebodied with an Autotune copy Falcon. That chassis was 100/023 and is alive and well living near Paris. The back axle was 100E I believe. The restorer of the car tells us of a reputed works Falcon body lying in a field in Holland. Did you keep any photographic records of your rebuilds. I believe you are now in Canada but were the Elva adventures in the UK?
John

[robrace]

The guy who wanted to copy my mk1 would have contacted me sometime in the early 70's when I had at that time 2 mk 1's.One of these is now in the states.The other is a non runner buit still in this country.My ex works car 800 BKN was for sale last year so am not sure where that is now.I purchased this car from a "barn" and it was covered with chicken s..t.It was restored by myself fitted with a stage 3 Climax and TC gearbox and was featured in car magazines along with appeals for information on the car.I got none but when I entered the car at Prescot the original owner from 1956 was there and he filled me in with it's history.He went down to see Frank Nichols to possibly buy an Elva but did'nt have enough funds for a new one so Frank sold him the works car which had turned over,caught fire and killed it's driver in the 1955 TT rcae at Dunrod.He purchased the car with spares to rebiuld it but with no body hence it's present alloy body.I have somewhere somephoto's of mt Mk1s.I have also owned a courier.100 formula junior and a 200 junior(ex Paddy Hopkirk)both juniors bought in bits and restored and raced by myself.I live nr Stratfod on Avon and can be contacted on (Contact Rob by PM for his tel. no.- JT)

[francoisb]

No more information about bob's proposition?
My car never had -in France- the original logbook:could it be sold or lost (with Archie!)?If it's this one...
And, also, if it's this one, why the guy we 're searching tried to copy a front MK2 with MK1 body/logbook: were the MK2 much quicker, or easy to drive? Or did he want to race during the 70's with such an "old" car?
Thanks.
François

[PeterMorley]

Could Bob's old ex-works car 800 BKN be the car that Paul Grant (vdvgrant.be) had for sale a year or so ago?
It was the same colour and similar style body, I can ask Paul where that car went when I next see him!

One of the books says that Archie loved the handling of the Elva. Most articles say the car he drove (KDY68) was a Mark 2 - which isn't surprising I think most of his Elva races were in 1957, and he would have had the most sophisticated model.

The brochure that I have (and I believe you now have copies of via John) says the main differences between the models were:

Mark 1 - used the complete Standard 8 front subframe/suspension/steering.
Mark 1B - had suspension mounting directly onto the chassis, and rack & pinion steering.
Mark 2 - De Dion rear suspension, rack & pinion steering etc.

So Mark 1s had solid rear axles and 2s De-Dions - but they made Mark 2s & 1Bs at the same time, so your chassis number could be a 1B.

Mark 2 also appears to have center lock wire wheels rather than the bolt on ones that seem to have been made specially for Elva.

The Alan Baillie who owned your car is that the English one or the French one? I know the English one really well, but don't remember him having an Elva!

As you know I have just bought MBU309, that is chassis 1100/7 and was also owned by Bob many years ago.

Apart from a Rochdale F-type body I need one front wheel for this car (or just the bolt on hub!), if anyone has a bolt on hub for a Standard/Triumph hub!

I'm sure I saw photos of your car somewhere (or did you send some to me), but I can't find them anywhere could you possibly send them again, or tell me where they are posted!

[PeterMorley]

Francois

I just found the photos of your car on the 'other forum'.
Looking at the brochure and your photos it looks like:

Your car has a Mark 1B front (which could be the same as Mark 2).
But the steering rack has been moved - it should be ahead of the axle line, that means both suspension units are on the wrong way round! That could just be an assembly error, when it was restored and then someone moved the rack to suit their mistake!!

The back axle is wrong.
It should have a Ford 100E (or E93A with torque tube removed) rear axle (even an a 1B) and that is mounted differently - the shock absorbers should be further apart, rather than a panhard rod it should have an A-frame (one rod each side going to the axle from the center of the chassis).

The rear chassis frame looks more like Mark 1B (the two diagonal tubes meet in the center of the top cross tube, on the Mark 2 they are further apart (to clear the differential/brake drums).

There are plenty of reasons why your rear axle could have been changed - accident or difficulty in finding different ratios for a Ford 100E!
And the other changes to shockabsorber mounts probably just go with that - it looks like yours still has the original wider mountings?

The car on NewEnglandClassics site has many problems - BMC rear axle, disc brakes, wrong wheels etc!

What I've discovered is that 1100/23 was a Mark 1B, and how much it was extensively modified by Peter Coleman!

Bestw ishes
Peter

[francoisb]

Thanks, Peter, for your answer.
Yes, John sent me all you found about these cars (I sent some questions to Dunbar, but he seems silent) , and I'm happy you bought a great Elva car.
About mine, front is like MK2 on some ELVA websites:
http://www.racecar-collection.com/in...a-Mk3-hist.jsp
and it's true there's some restorations mistakes : but the guy who made that was a French liar-the guy from "stars racing team": I contacted him, and he said the car has been stolen (false), and he tried anything to make the car faster into the 80's...and Elva were "poor littles car" without value.
So, it could be also an "historic race car victim", no?

[filippo]

Hi all,
i'm an italian guy, my name's Filippo and i'am restoring MK 1 ELVA chassis 100/12.
The car has a fiberglass body and a 1100 climax engine.
I need some infos about the car...
If anyone could please help me...!?
I'll take some pics as soon as i can...!

[andysayers]

Hi just happened to stumble accross your forum
i thought you may be interested to know that my father would have built your chassis on your elva mk 1 as he and his partner built all the chassis for all the elvas i know he still has paperwork for almost all the chassis built,he has lent some items to Roger Dunbar (president of the elva owners club) .

[John Lindsay]

Andy
Would it be possible to post the lists . I have the one for the 200 series Formula Junior which is incomplete but nobody will post even the list of the chassis numbers built so we could fill in the gaps . I have an old Mk6 list from years ago but it is also incomplete
Thanks
John Lindsay
lotus69ca@hotmail.com

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by andysayers

Hi just happened to stumble accross your forum
i thought you may be interested to know that my father would have built your chassis on your elva mk 1 as he and his partner built all the chassis for all the elvas i know he still has paperwork for almost all the chassis built,he has lent some items to Roger Dunbar (president of the elva owners club) .

Andy

Would it be possible to let me have a copy of any information your father has on my MK 1, it is chassis number 7 originally built for Alex McMillan.

I'm working with Roger Dunbar and Stan Mason to collate as much information as possible on the early Elvas, anything that Roger hasn't already seen would be appreciated.

Thank you
Peter