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Old 25 Nov 2015, 13:15 (Ref:3593234)   #1
The Fat Clerk
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South Mids Training Day - Different Format

I think most of us are fed up of the same old, same old, Training Days, so the South Mids Region of the BMMC are running something a bit different next January at Rockingham.

Have a read below and see what you think, if you're interested please fill in the volunteering form below and forward to Elaine Brice (address at the bottom).

VOLUNTEERING FORM
BMMC TRAINING DAYS
23RD OR 24TH JANUARY 2016
ROCKINGHAM MOTOR SPEEDWAY
Ready for something different?
Fed up of power point presentations?
Want some ’real’ practical training?
Then this is the event for you!
(Both days will be the same so you can attend either Saturday or Sunday
Firstly, the intention is that everybody will attend all modules being presented, (though not all MSA training modules are being included), in small groups, on a round robin basis throughout the morning, this will include fire training. The groups will be interactive, giving everybody the opportunity to learn and pass on their knowledge, whilst still covering all the requirements of the MSA.
After the lunch break everyone will re-convene in the inner paddock for the practical training. This will take the form of a mini race meeting, the ‘BMMC Training Stakes’ a two race series!
All attendees will be allocated to posts or duties according to their grades, with each sector on the track having an experienced marshal/trainer allocated to it, to oversee all activities and to ensure everything is carried out in a safe manner and to give guidance and assistance as required.
This will be run as much like a real race meeting as possible, with the exception of no actual judicial procedures following any reports and including real race cars and some rolling wrecks, but they will not be driven at racing speed. All incidents will be planned and stage managed but only the trainers and drivers will have the script. Those of you on post need to be prepared for anything to happen. This will be followed by a de-brief in the paddock at the end.
Please complete all sections and indicate whether you will attend on the Saturday or the Sunday:
Saturday 23rd Sunday 24th
Name __________________________________________
Telephone _______________________
Address __________________________________________________________________________
Email ____________________________________________________________________________
Current grade _____________________________________________________________________
Upgrading to ______________________________________________________________________
Do you aspire to any other role in motorsport? ___________________________________________
If so we will endeavour to give you some insight into that role during the day.
If anyone has any queries regarding these days please contact Elaine Brice direct on either elaine.brice@btinternet.com or sm.training@marshals.co.uk
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Old 25 Nov 2015, 15:10 (Ref:3593258)   #2
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I remember doing those at Oulton Park, both as a 'marshal' on post and also as observer for one of the 'race cars'. Fantastic way to go training, and we had great fun staging 'fights' between drivers, drivers collapsing, abusing marshals etc etc.

Unfortunately, I'll be bladdered in Edinburgh that weekend
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Old 25 Nov 2015, 15:26 (Ref:3593261)   #3
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The Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridThe Fat Clerk should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In the 80's we did them like this @ Silverstone using the School Cars, the drivers would deliberately muck up the script - happy days.
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Old 25 Nov 2015, 22:51 (Ref:3593345)   #4
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Unfortunately, I'll be bladdered in Edinburgh that weekend

I probably be bladdered in Chipping Norton, then as most weekends....

Bladders...
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Old 26 Nov 2015, 13:25 (Ref:3593461)   #5
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In the 80's we did them like this @ Silverstone using the School Cars, the drivers would deliberately muck up the script - happy days.
I remember something similar on the Donington Melbourne loop years ago, a very good session it was too.

Right up to the point where someone had his 'accident' on the wrong post on the wrong lap meaning there were no marshals left to attend! I had to run over and ask him how serious his shunt was, because he was going to have to queue behind the one we were dealing with!

Despite (or possibly because) of that, I remember it being an excellent initiative and we all felt we learned a lot. Congratulations on reviving the format.
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Old 26 Nov 2015, 15:39 (Ref:3593473)   #6
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Funny story from Eduardo the FIA Race Director. During a Wednesday practice @ Le Mans they have a 'staged' incident to scramble everything, on this day one of the cars is a Ferrari and the driver of the 'crashed car' leans over to the Chef de Poste and said ' can you tell your Control I'm unconscious'
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Old 27 Nov 2015, 15:21 (Ref:3593676)   #7
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In the 80's we did them like this @ Silverstone using the School Cars, the drivers would deliberately muck up the script - happy days.
Like wot we used to do! I remember that.
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Old 27 Nov 2015, 16:23 (Ref:3593691)   #8
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the drivers would deliberately muck up the script - happy days.
Just like they do when they turn up at a real race meeting LOL
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Old 27 Nov 2015, 20:57 (Ref:3593752)   #9
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Like wot we used to do! I remember that.
Should perhaps have added that I remember that method of training with some fondness; it was a good way to train. Seem to recall that one of the most common mistakes of newcomer marshals was to stand "wrong" side of the (supposedly) damaged car, a lesson well learned then, rather than in the "heat of battle".

Well done for giving it a try again.
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Old 27 Nov 2015, 22:13 (Ref:3593767)   #10
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One message of warning from the Oulton Park version - just make sure the drivers doing the 'collapsing' bit are not too good - seem to recall Kim Mather's performance at Shell got a standing ovation from the marshals rather than the desired intervention!
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Old 4 Jan 2016, 11:42 (Ref:3601979)   #11
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Still places available on both days, don't miss out on what promises to be a great event.
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Old 12 Jan 2016, 12:22 (Ref:3604002)   #12
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Had a good meeting with Nick @ Rockingham yesterday, looks like it's going to be a unique event. Instructions etc will be going out via email this coming weekend.
Still a couple of places left if you want to be at the event.
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Old 16 Jan 2016, 16:25 (Ref:3605364)   #13
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The instructions have been sent out by email this afternoon, if you haven't Elaine's address is elaine.brice@btinternet.com
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Old 24 Jan 2016, 18:17 (Ref:3607656)   #14
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fantastic day, great format, 3 cheers and a thank you to all involved in the creating and running of this event
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Old 24 Jan 2016, 19:57 (Ref:3607684)   #15
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Excellent day today, was informative and FUN. Well done.
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Old 26 Jan 2016, 09:17 (Ref:3608050)   #16
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Had a brilliant day at Rockingham for the South Mids training day on Saturday some really good theory sessions followed by a brilliant mock race meeting in the afternoon to practice all the theory taught in the morning. Well done to all involved and all who helped put the day together.
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Old 26 Jan 2016, 11:04 (Ref:3608079)   #17
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Rather excellent fun, might I say...

I was very lucky to be involved with the BMMC South Mids Training Day at Rockingham over the weekend.

In a nutshell - we had a series of theory modules, and fire training, in the mornings, based on the MSA modules. In the afternoon something new (well in recent years anyhow) was tried. A full scale "mock" race meeting was put together, with 2 races each day, each of about 14 laps (inc GF and SC laps etc) around the Rockingham circuit. We manned up some posts and had flag cover all around. The meeting was fully simulated with Drivers sign on, scrutineering, 14 real race cars, 13 real drivers (and me). We had a full blown assembly (with associated Specialist problems) and Start line and procedure. We were allowed to race, but only in a safe and controlled manner with respect, and slower than full race pace. So the racing was tactical - but very much there.

The drivers had various tasks and scripts to follow - to simulate incidents and the scripting involved, Red flags, fights, gravel traverses, engine blow ups, (complete with smoke bombs) marshal injuries, safety car deployment, staged role, and we managed some, ahem, "unscripted" spins (it was bl**dy greasy tbh). We even had a team member playing up, who is a real team member (British GT), but too much a pro to play up in real life!

The cars, all race cars were mainly MR2's supplied by Alec Fitness of Prize Motorsport. The drivers were mainly Track Attack Race Club (who race MR2, Nippon, Tricolore Trophy and Deutche Challenge). Nina and I found ourselves in the curious position of knowing these guys well, so were lucky enough to drive on the day, but as we are also marshals, our role sort of bridged both disciplines.

For sure I know the drivers had a great laugh, and loved the day, and I think they had a new appreciation for what we actually do. There is no doubt they already really appreciate that we give up our time. However I think they now have a better understanding of the "professionalism" we need to have.

It was a brilliant idea, brilliantly organised by both BMMC South Mids and Rockingham. Ok some teething troubles, and it is now realised that more incident, and differing incidents, and perhaps "rule breaking like exceeding track limits and false starts can be added to give a better "all round" experience. As it was a "full" race meeting, the practical encompassed all aspects, Comms, Specialism, PC, Incident, Flagging, Scrutineering, pits, S/L all in one exercise. Cool!!

On this occasion we could probably have done with more "customers" for the training. We were a tad short on numbers.

I really hope that both the core BMMC, other clubs, and the MSA take notice of this, because for me it is the way to go. As close to as real experience as poss with no real jeapordy. If (when) it goes ahead next year, I just hope their are more takers for the places available.

Negative point - where is my Driver of the Day Trophy? I was 85 btw, you'll note the front row start of course ;-)

Funny points; Nina spun the wreck on a test lap in the morning, with a CoC in front of her, and a CoC following behind LOL. Give her points I say (it was a wreck though, turns out had no brakes).

I needed a pillow in my MR2 to reach the pedals. Scrutineer comes around (with a new scrutineer under training) goes through the usual, and just turns to me and says, "Pillow, fireproof?". Quick as anything I just reply, "Yeah, 3 layer Nomex". "Excellent" he says, "That's passed then." to the bemusement of the new scrut.

I really hope that this is repeated next year, and that the marshals attending got something out of it.

[IMG]24220511639_22c066ff3b_o by Chirpycat, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]23961454053_dafd529488_h by Chirpycat, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]23961449183_aee304247c_o by Chirpycat, on Flickr[/IMG]

Last edited by Terrible-Tones; 26 Jan 2016 at 11:29. Reason: Becuase I wanted to edit it, what on earth else would I choose to edit it for - pah!
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Old 26 Jan 2016, 12:05 (Ref:3608085)   #18
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I was 85 btw, you'll note the front row start of course ;-)
Ha! I got you overtaking under SC .... although tbf, the guy you overtook did pull off and suffered an engine "blow up"

Seriously though, the race simulation definitely a great idea ... especially for the novices to get an idea of what was going on.

As an afterthought, it might be a good idea to try and rotate people round more, so they get to see more of the "action" as I didn't see too much of it myself (again, I'm thinking more of novices here than myself) .... but overall, seemed like a very good idea.
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Old 26 Jan 2016, 13:56 (Ref:3608117)   #19
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Ha! I got you overtaking under SC .... although tbf, the guy you overtook did pull off and suffered an engine "blow up"

Seriously though, the race simulation definitely a great idea ... especially for the novices to get an idea of what was going on.

As an afterthought, it might be a good idea to try and rotate people round more, so they get to see more of the "action" as I didn't see too much of it myself (again, I'm thinking more of novices here than myself) .... but overall, seemed like a very good idea.
LOL - Well I couldn't pull her up on all that oil he was losing could I!!! Actually - good spot, though my overtake was somewhat "unscheduled". Simply that I found myself approaching the corner faster than 161, and given it was really greasy and horrible at Yentwood I didn't want to brake hard and risk a T-Bone, and therefore it was just easier and safer to go up the inside - I knew he knew I was there. However, under real conditions I should have been hammered for that. It was a good "training" bit anyway. The "actual" overtake took place two corners later when Dave H in number 5 overtook two cars under SC.

I think the rotating around more, or having incidents at differing corners, or even a totally different "script" for R2 has already been taken onboard, and should be better next time, especially now we have a handle on how well the drivers did and what their mixture of genuine competitiveness, safety, and script following was like (100% spot on). It is clear we can safely ask the drivers to do anything and it will be followed.

For me I would like to see more "transgressions" involved too, to give PC's and others more chance to report, and learn when to make appropriate radio calls on the radio as an incident develops. We can easily arrange stuff like false or practise starts, and exceeding track limits (which I did on 50% of my laps at Tarzan - just to see if it was noticed.

Glad you enjoyed the day. Not sure why DW (flagging) at Chapman decided to tell me it was two laps to go every lap, but I confirmed it every lap too - should be in Comms Module.
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Old 26 Jan 2016, 18:10 (Ref:3608207)   #20
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I'm afraid I have to contradict you there, the drivers didn't "...follow the script 100%..." They were good on the Saturday but after the red flag on the Sunday they deliberately scrambled themselves up returning to the startline for the restart so the trainees had to reposition each and every one of them back to the grid positions..........OK, so it was a good idea, and point taken for next year.......but they didn't have to grin so much and give us all the verbal whilst they were doing it. Was that your idea Tony?

Seriously, though, I was a Specialist helper and thought the mock race idea was brilliant. I only wished I had had that introduction and chance to ask questions and make mistakes in a less pressurised environment when I was younger in the sport. I have loads of ideas for next year...I hope there's a next year??? please?????
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Old 27 Jan 2016, 22:38 (Ref:3608561)   #21
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I'm afraid I have to contradict you there, the drivers didn't "...follow the script 100%..." They were good on the Saturday but after the red flag on the Sunday they deliberately scrambled themselves up returning to the startline for the restart so the trainees had to reposition each and every one of them back to the grid positions..........OK, so it was a good idea, and point taken for next year.......but they didn't have to grin so much and give us all the verbal whilst they were doing it. Was that your idea Tony?
LOL. "Deliberately"??! !
What did they say in report writing module? How can you tell it was deliberate? 😉

Actually what happened was guy next to me on front row had a problem, and dropped back, I think I error ed somewhere and was passed, and someone else had a half spin. I think there were 3 or 4 out of order. So not deliberate, though for next year I think it might be worth suggesting to Elaine we do that, particularly if we let more junior marshals actually "Chief" those areas. It would be good practise. I did deliberatly stop too close to the car in front to get boxed in, just to wind up Steve W. Sadly my quest failed lol.
Earache, from us, never!

Great fun wasn't it.
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Old 28 Jan 2016, 08:21 (Ref:3608623)   #22
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Also thinking we changed the script didn't we? The "start-line" incident now happened on the first racing lap, hence also some changes of order.

I am an ActOOR, a PEERformer, how DARE you accuse us of forgetting our script!
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Old 29 Jan 2016, 08:17 (Ref:3608987)   #23
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As one of the racers (and trainee CoC), I just wanted to echo what has been said, it was a great event.
I got involved in the recruitment of drivers, specifically sourcing experienced racers we knew via the Track Attack race club forum and friends on FB, so they knew the format of a race day, take instruction and keep the speeds down (easier said than done).
The response was great and it grew from an initial 6 cars and drivers to over 12 (possibly bigger grid than some clubs will see this year...), drivers were keen to give something back to the Marshals, without you guys we are not going racing.
I hope this format becomes more widespread, not just for the training of Marshals, but as it gives the drivers a much better understanding of the varied roles the Marshals train for.
Thank you to all that organised and took part, hope to see you again next year.

regards
Gareth (rollover Polo)
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Old 29 Jan 2016, 19:10 (Ref:3609117)   #24
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Hi Gareth,

I would echo those words.

The more we all know about each other's roles in making a race day happen, the better.

I learned an awful lot and took a lot from it.

Were you winning at the time you rolled ?

JW
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Old 30 Jan 2016, 13:16 (Ref:3609240)   #25
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It was an excellent day at Rockingham and the races really made it so much more realistic. It was good to be able to try something you don't normally do in a safe environment.
I would like to know if car 61 intended to make it all the way across the gravel and almost into the barrier at Yentwood on Sunday. The off during the second race was a lot more careful
Equally the fire training was good, and i enjoyed the communication session - having RC in the room made it easy to understand what happens in the nice warm offices!
Thanks to everyone involved. Hopefully this sets the new standard for training next year.
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