seen the 1987 F3 champs on motors TV?

[sonic]

anyone seen this series? called memories of motorsport on Motors TV.

They just showed the 1987 F3 champs

Brilliant to watch it again with the hindsight of where hill, herbert, donnelly, mcarthy, comas, etc ,etc ended up.

Herbert really was the class act. Hill had a turn of speed but very average compared to Herbert. It must annoy him to this day that hill won the F1 WDC.

[jondownunder]

Yep, I saw it and stuck it on DVD! Great that Motors are showing such rare stuff in the off-season; caught a 1985 Moto GP review the week before this edition of "Motorsport Memories", and a year or so ago I believe they showed the 1985 F3000 season review.

[Mygale]

Originally Posted by sonic

Herbert really was the class act. Hill had a turn of speed but very average compared to Herbert. It must annoy him to this day that hill won the F1 WDC.

Herbert was by miles the class of the field , a good season for British F3 . Herbert seemed to take it all totally in his stride . Every interview i have seen , he was as laid back as ever .

[Mygale]

Going back to Motors tv . It was very good that they showed it but a shame that it wasnt the full review as it was edited down alot to fit in the 1 hour slot they had .

i noticed the other night that the actual 1987 Formula 3 vhs of it is for sale on ebay at the moment in the motorsport videos section . Cant believe that its coming up for 20 years now since Johnny won that title .

[chunterer]

Not seen Motors stuff as haven't got it, but interesting to see what they're showing.

Yeah i went to quite a lot of the Brit F3 events in the mid-late 80's and an awful lot of talent that we still see today came through the British and various European series. Certainly the guys you've mentioned Sonic as well as Larini, Apicella, Tamburini, Gounon, Helary, Schneider, naspetti, Montermini, Gachot, the list probably would have over 30 names on it of perople who went onto achieve something or other.

Johnny was destined for the WDC after that year, he continued to impress in 3000, but the legacy of the Brands shunt cost him time around a lap in the F1 cars because of restricted feel and movement in his heeled ankle.

Thomas Danielsson was another driver who deserved to go onto better things, he was certainly on Johnny's pace but perhaps not as consistent in the Madgwick car although they went better once they'd swapped the Alfa engines for Spiess veedubs.

I remember him gobsmacking allcomers after returning to racing after eye trouble in opening 3000 round at Silverstone in '89, again with Madgwick. Both he and another Brit F3 graduate Phillipe Favre (GA Lola) outclassed the likes of Alesi, Donnelly, Lehto, Blundell, Comas and Bernard that day - but all of whom graduated to F1 with some notable results, if not achievinh full potneitla for various reasons.

I've always been tempted to rummage throgh collector websites and buy up as many vids of those years as possible because of the quality of talent and racing, but never gotten round to it!!

[Dan Rear]

chunterer, agreed re Danielsson, I was at that Silverstone F3000 race, he walked it didn't he. IIRC it was his first race in the category, most of the others you mention had some experience of it, and he made them all look very second rate.

Re Herbert, I agree he was v good, and the accident affected his career. However in '87, I think there were certain rumours that his engine was a bit better than the others, so perhaps it flattered him slightly. I don't agree that Damon was "very average compared to Herbert", if any of them have regrets, I reckon it must be Donnelly. He was usually, tho' not always, faster than Damon, and fwiw, I think quicker than Herbert overall.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Dan Rear

chunterer, agreed re Danielsson, I was at that Silverstone F3000 race, he walked it didn't he. IIRC it was his first race in the category, most of the others you mention had some experience of it, and he made them all look very second rate.
I don't agree that Damon was "very average compared to Herbert", if any of them have regrets, I reckon it must be Donnelly. He was usually, tho' not always, faster than Damon, and fwiw, I think quicker than Herbert overall.

Thomas had started the '88 3000 season alongside Herbert at EJR, but had to stand down mid season as his eyesight problems increased. He was initially replaced by F2/3000 journeyman Alessandro Santin who didn't do much and then linking nicely to the second part of your post, Martin Donnelly took over the seat (after some clever outmanouvering of Damon to get there first!!), and ended up second or 3rd in the points having only done about 4 races! How things could have been so different that year if both he and Johnny (maybe a fully fit Thomas too) had been able to complete a full season!! Methinks Roberto Moreno, may have had to work a bit harder to clinch it, good driver as he was back then.

Danielsson then came back for a full assault in '89 and began with that Silverstone win that we both were at. He suffered some reliability problems thereafter, and i suspect, was still having difficulty with the eyes, as he didn't compete properly again for a couple of years after that. He's actually prompted me to question the lack of quality Swedish drivers nowadays in a thread on the F1 forum.

There's little doubt in my mind that Martin was a world class driver and is still a top bloke today! Wasn't much in it between him and 'Impey'.

[chunterer]

Sonic,

I don't know how much detail the programme went into but that season, particularly in Britain was significant for other reasons which might be of interest to you

Reynard continued running a works 'R&D' team with people like Steve Kempton and Phillipe Favre driving.

Mark Blundell also took in a part season (dovetailing with his year old Lola 3000 exploits!) with the Fleetray team, although i think that may also have been R&D entered.

The late Roland Ratzenberger joined WSR a few rounds in, alongside Gachot and was quite competitive.

Other drivers of note were Gary Brabham, Rickard Rydell, Peter Kox, Niclas Shoenstrom and there was a good battle for Class B honours between Gary's Dunn and Ward!

[sonic]

great background, cheers guys. yeah I recall gary brabham winning a round and saw peter kox up there too.

I just liked the way Herbert Bullied hill out of the way on a number of occassions. Yeah Donnelly must be pretty gutted too, he made Damon look especially steady at a wet brands hatch.

I guess there are not many people who would have lost the F1 WDC in that 96 Williams. Apart from a rookie JV!

[flexible-flyer]

herbert and donnelly were class acts of the junior stuff back in the day i reckon. both badly affected by les grands accidents massifs enormes. if i recall, herbert was so good he was still plucked out of 3000 and dumped into f1 despite walking like he had a pole up his arse with those smashed heels he had. and he looked a pretty confident chap in those early f1 days too before going team hopping in the 90s. still managed to win a few f1 races though. might have been so much more.

donnelly might not have got any points in that old lotus he drove but it looks as though he was ahead of warwick alot of the time in 1990 before that horrifying scene at jerez. i reckon he would have been on the books for future stardom if that crash didnt happen.......motorsport for yee.....

[jondownunder]

Motorsport Memory is now showing a 1994 British F3 Review, first airing (I think) right now, at 9pm. Should be repeated a lot through the week.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by sonic

anyone seen this series? called memories of motorsport on Motors TV.

I've been away and missed that one (blast!), but I do have the season review on tape. Wonderful stuff, with quite a few exciting races.

Originally Posted by sonic

It must annoy him to this day that hill won the F1 WDC.

I would like to defend Herbert here. He clearly isn't a bitter man in anyway, rather he is above such thoughts. There was a great article about the Brit-pack from that era in the Motoring News (sic) 50th anniversary issue a few months back. All of them celebrating the times they had. There are some great cheesy photos too.

[flexible-flyer]

i think hill says in the 95 f1 season review that if you had him, johnny and coulthard in the same room they would all have a a good laugh but if you had micheal join them he would spoil the atmosphere!

i think johnny is a guy who wouldnt get angry no matter what happened. apart from his annoyance at irvine at italia 94 i dont remember ever hearing about him getting out of first gear on the rickter scale!!

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by jondownunder

Motorsport Memory is now showing a 1994 British F3 Review, first airing (I think) right now, at 9pm. Should be repeated a lot through the week.

Now there's an interesting season. So many good drivers that year but hardly any of them continued onto achieve anything great?! Franchitti's still doing well, but Magnussen was the greatest prospect since Senna/Schuey after utterly decimating the field that year, yet it didn't happen for him.

Bit of a contrast to the '87 season where a load of drivers got into or near F1.

[Sato san]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

I've been away and missed that one (blast!), but I do have the season review on tape. Wonderful stuff, with quite a few exciting races.

you need not have worried there Adam . As good as it was , Motors tv only actually showed the season review ( that you have anyway i expect ) , only they cut it down by about 20 minutes shorter to fit the 1 hour schedule .

still , not a critisim , it is really good to Motors TV to start showing some old classic stuff .

Hats off to them

[Suze]

are they planning any more? (having just had / having the '94 one)