[BTCC] Rd 16,17,18 Snetterton

[Tja]

Difficult to comment on both of the big accidents in races 2&3 as it was difficult to make out what caused the whole thing in the first place. The outcome of course was awful and as said before, we're lucky that we're only talking about expensive repair bills today. A shame that these are the bits that'll stay in our minds because I think there were some fantastic battles all day, especially the lead battle in race one was great to watch.

On the rolling starts, I'm not convinced. The rolling starts in WTCC a few years ago were terrible. All they did was delay the big accidents from the start line when cars are moving fairly slow to the first big breaking point. The field was a lot less stretched out before T1 because of the rolling start and that caused a lot more trouble than the standing starts usually did in race 2.

[Sodemo]

One thing motorsport does well is knee-jerk reactions.

In terms of the R3 crash at the start, it was horrible to watch, however thats the first time ive seen a car nearly vault a barrier since Russell Spence at Oulton Park in 1999. Perhaps there has been one since, but I can't think of one. Lets not make snap judgements and start to tear down Rome over this, it was a scary incident, but there haven't been many as severe as that.

I think that simply some stern words from Mr Gow at the drivers briefing would be a good place to start and then go from there.

[CaptRustyNail]

It does seem to suggest some drivers forgot how to race over the summer break. Hunter Abbott the poor bloke seems to attract big accidents. I enjoy the big grids but some people do seem to be particularly prone to incidents, O. Jackson, Alex Martin, Mark Howard to name but a few. It is also sad that the guys with talent like Welch never have any luck and end up in the aforementioned incidents.It's even more sad that talented drivers such as Daniel Lloyd cannot find a backer......

Ugh

[Tracsmart]

Originally Posted by CaptRustyNail

It does seem to suggest some drivers forgot how to race over the summer break. Hunter Abbott the poor bloke seems to attract big accidents. I enjoy the big grids but some people do seem to be particularly prone to incidents, O. Jackson, Alex Martin, Mark Howard to name but a few. It is also sad that the guys with talent like Welch never have any luck and end up in the aforementioned incidents.It's even more sad that talented drivers such as Daniel Lloyd cannot find a backer......

Ugh

Rolling starts are not the answer. Lets not beat about the bush, there are a number of drivers who could not drive sheep. Same ones each circuit, Martin, O. Jackson, Howard, Fletcher and a few others. They spend more time in the gravel than a gravel delivery driver, they are involved in more accidents than rescue teams on the M6 deal with. It is time to stop these drivers before someone gets killed or seriously injured (fellow drivers, members of the public or race support personnel) Time to act Mr Gow!
Driving standards need to be enforced and appropriate action taken to ban drivers who cannot drive a race car.
I have been involved in motorsport since you had to prove you can race and the current status is disgraceful and has to stop. That includes Morgan's intent to remove Sedan from the race.

[skells22]

well, hunter abbot also tick one of my predictions after his car rolled after that start line shunt today

[Craner Curves]

I suspect tintoptuesday will be 5 mins long on Tuesday as Alan Hyde will never be able to sugar-coat this utter carnage. We shouldn't have kneejerk reactions to the start line chaos though, it's something we only really seem to see at Snetterton like in 93, 03 and 07 for example. Maybe they need to widen the pit straight.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

I suspect tintoptuesday will be 5 mins long on Tuesday as Alan Hyde will never be able to sugar-coat this utter carnage. We shouldn't have kneejerk reactions to the start line chaos though, it's something we only really seem to see at Snetterton like in 93, 03 and 07 for example. Maybe they need to widen the pit straight.

Agreed. This is the 4th time (from memory) accident have happened at Snett off the startline. Accidents can happen at the start at any track, they just feel like more so at Snetterton.

[thlbtcc]

Plato to me seems like Yvan Muller in WTCC. Being beaten fair and square by Turkington in the same car.

In race 3, it was if he was struggling for pace in the early laps while the tyre temperatures were lower. This was always a characteristic of the RWD BMWs in past years, but doesn't seem to have too much of an effect for Collard, Tordoff and Turkington anymore. Perhaps it's driving with a different technique in the early phase or a set-up trick.

Once the first 5 laps were out of the way, he was on the pace once again.

But I ain't no driver or engineer. One to keep an eye on.

[rdjones]

Well the stewards revise Ollie Jackson penalty he has now been fined £500 and given three points - http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...ckson-penalty/

[porsche962fan]

something which should not be forgotten


boost recalculations after this round !!! the Hondas were again lowest in the speed traps, they needs more boost, unless Gow want to give the title to WSR right now with tracks like Rockingham and Silverstone coming up

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

something which should not be forgotten


boost recalculations after this round !!! the Hondas were again lowest in the speed traps, they needs more boost, unless Gow want to give the title to WSR right now with tracks like Rockingham and Silverstone coming up

After Sunday's events I'm surprised anyone would even think that this is an issue that needs dealing with!!!

Start line accidents would be a lot less frequent if hazardous drivers weren't on the grid in the first place. They would still happen, but yesterday was a perfect example of drivers being out of their depth. The ones named already need to have their licenses looked at. I feel it's a bit harsh shoving Howard into this group, he may not have too much pace and frequently is off the circuit but it's really rare that he is involved in an incident involving another car iirc, whereas Alex Martin and Ollie Jackson drive as if they want to hurt their fellow competitors. It would be difficult for a psychopathic sadist to compete in the BTCC and create more carnage than they do.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

whereas Alex Martin and Ollie Jackson drive as if they want to hurt their fellow competitors. It would be difficult for a psychopathic sadist to compete in the BTCC and create more carnage than they do.

That's a bit libellous surely? I blame Dan Welch for race two, he elbowed Jackson off the track and got his comeuppance. I hope his crowd funding drive fails miserably.

[S griffin]

I love it when people are going strong for an underfunded team in the BTCC, and the race 3 drive by Austin is a great result for the Handy team

I don't know what to say about the same thing that always comes up in the series in driving standards, but a lot of drivers seem to forget when to get out of loud pedal.

Gutted for Tordoff, but Collard is finally looking a serious title threat, while the Hondas are back in it and don't rule out Colin either

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

That's a bit libellous surely? I blame Dan Welch for race two, he elbowed Jackson off the track and got his comeuppance. I hope his crowd funding drive fails miserably.

Naturally I think the latter part of your post is a ridiculous thing to say. Fair enough blaming him, hut hoping he isn't able to return to the grid - when he undoubtedly has talent? Seems a bit far.

I've no idea how true it is but according to a friend who was stood where the accident happened he reckoned it was typical BTCC elbows, but Jackson made contact with Welch's back wheel, breaking the suspension and leading to the cars flying off in all directions. That sounds like an unfortunate racing incident to me, but seen as the stewards have all the in car videos and telemetry to use then I'd imagine they are correct in just punishing Ollie.

I'd like to see it from onboard Welch/Jackson/Sutton and a few others who were buzzing about them before judging it. I doubt we'll have the opportunity to see that however.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

In terms of the R3 crash at the start, it was horrible to watch, however thats the first time ive seen a car nearly vault a barrier since Russell Spence at Oulton Park in 1999. Perhaps there has been one since, but I can't think of one. Lets not make snap judgements and start to tear down Rome over this, it was a scary incident, but there haven't been many as severe as that

Not BTCC, but a Seat jumped the barriers at Brands a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxs3GbLrkuU

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by 850Estate

Naturally I think the latter part of your post is a ridiculous thing to say. Fair enough blaming him, hut hoping he isn't able to return to the grid - when he undoubtedly has talent? Seems a bit far.
.

He doesn't have as much talent as some people think. Why put your car at risk all the time? I didn't say I hope he fails to return, I hope his crowd funding effort doesn't work. If he can't do it without that, then that's racing. It's just pathetic begging fans for money.

[Craner Curves]

On another note, definitely a few cars missing for Knockhill and I can see the racing being neutered as a result of the talking to they'll all receive.

[S griffin]

I just want to add it isn't the only time Abbot has been in an accident when he has been over a barrier, as he was in the same accident in the British GT

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Not BTCC, but a Seat jumped the barriers at Brands a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxs3GbLrkuU

That's a good point, I forgot that one. There was also a Porsche Supercup that vaulted over the barrier at Thruxton on the exit of the Campbell - Cobb - Segrave complex a year or two ago.

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

He doesn't have as much talent as some people think. Why put your car at risk all the time? I didn't say I hope he fails to return, I hope his crowd funding effort doesn't work. If he can't do it without that, then that's racing. It's just pathetic begging fans for money.

If his crowd funding can't get a decent amount, then I don't think we'll see him back.

The thing is that could've happened to any driver, and the amount of damaged sustained would've knocked them out the Championship/forced the begging bowl out. Look at guys like Jake Hill - all the talent in the world, I think we can all agree - but if he had been involved in that it could've ended his season and he'd of had to turn to the fans. It happened with Mike Bushell last year, another good driver, and ruined his season and both Simon Belcher and Rob Austin have turned to the fans for support.

I don't think any Touring Car driver is doing the series this year with the expectation that they won't have to fork out a decent amount to repair their car over the course of the season. I also think however that an accident like that could've put a lot of drivers out of the series however. How many (outside the 'works' teams) have the budget and manpower to build a new car at this stage in the season?

When was the last NGTC car that was a total write off? Did Bushell need a new shell last year? My memory ain't what it used to be!

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

That's a good point, I forgot that one. There was also a Porsche Supercup that vaulted over the barrier at Thruxton on the exit of the Campbell - Cobb - Segrave complex a year or two ago.

Almost 10 years ago now! - Kelvin Burt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n8MhZhw_sQ

[VIVA GT]

When I get the opportunity I always try to watch the BTCC races on TV, having been keen on Touring Car Racing for a very long time. I admit that I'd lost a bit of interest in the series over the past few years BECAUSE of all the unnecessary contact/push to pass nonsense.
I managed to catch races 2 & 3 yesterday so saw both of the big crashes (they were NOT accidents).
This is not a situation that is unique to the BTCC, all racers nowadays do not realise to slow down when there's problems ahead, and so end up driving at full speed into either stationary or slower moving vehicles.
Thank goodness that no one was hurt yesterday (apart from in the pocket), but maybe that's part of the problem? Are the cars so safe nowadays that the drivers feel as safe as playing a computer game, you don't get hurt when you crash in those either, plus there's the added advantage of just re-starting the game with an un-damaged car...

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Not BTCC, but a Seat jumped the barriers at Brands a few years ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxs3GbLrkuU

An MR2 made it through the gap in the catch fencing at the top of Paddock at Brands as well - went out through the track access gate into the area where the pit walk queue is at touring car meetings.

[billy bleach]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

Honestly it's been a long time coming but Alex Martin and Ollie Jackson have to leave this series before someone gets hurt. That was truly stupid, this was so close to a disaster, first with Welch and secondly with this cameraman incident, people's lives are very much at stake in this sport and this is a sorry reminder of that, and how certain people are just not cut out for the sport and never seem to learn that. Naming names is the only solution, and these people have to leave before anything worse occurs.

Somehow we've escaped without any major injuries so far. And I don't want the series to take far more risk than it needs to by allowing certain individuals to race.

Alex Martin is well qualified - big fat check book with lots of experience racing Ferraris.....

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

something which should not be forgotten


boost recalculations after this round !!! the Hondas were again lowest in the speed traps, they needs more boost, unless Gow want to give the title to WSR right now with tracks like Rockingham and Silverstone coming up

They were not the slowest. Down in the bottom thirds, but not the slowest.

In addition, Tim Harvey said there speed differential is due to on-going development on the new inlet manifold, not boost.

Shedden was using new development parts (or it might have even been a new spec of engine) this weekend in the search of more straight line speed.

The boost adjustment comes from a calculation of lap speed, not handed out if one team is slower than others etc. despite what some driver comments will have you believe.