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Old 7 Jan 2017, 19:10 (Ref:3700834)   #76
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The original Donington? Gosh, you must be fairly old. It closed in the 1930s!
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Old 7 Jan 2017, 19:19 (Ref:3700837)   #77
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My main thought on this matter is, can the BRDC afford to not activate the break clause.

I do think they are trying to use this as a ploy to renegotiate the contract with Liberty, once Bernie is out the way.

The 2 circuits that would, with a huge amount of money needing to be spent to upgrade the facilities, Donington and Rockingham have already said they are not interested in hosting the British Grand Prix.

The only other circuit that could host a GP in this country is not much more than a muddy field in South Wales at the moment, and to be honest will probably amount to nothing more than a pipe dream.

Bernie is not adverse to dropping traditional venues if they can't pay (France, Germany). He only cares about making the most amount of money possible and who can blame him, he is a realist with little sentiment for how things used to be. His view seems to be 'Shape up or ship out'.

I expect Bernie being the old hand at the magicians trick of smoke and mirrors will create a diversionary tactic, such as making a stupid remark or announcing something totally fanciful while quietly sorting out this mess when no one is looking.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3700956)   #78
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Bernie will probably mention his desire for a 'London GP' as diversionary tactic.....

I think the BRDC will need to walk away and pass the ball back to Liberty to face the PR of saving or losing the British GP.

Although the BRDC have made some poor decisions in the past over the Wing and to be frank the GP contract that some said was unaffordable the day they signed it, they are stuck with a one sided, uneconomic contract with completely restrictive terms to even attempt to make it pay. To be honest I think the GP has blighted the whole Silverstone business as it dominates their thinking and PR when they should be developing the venue business as a whole and creating new events and new initiatives.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 10:24 (Ref:3700962)   #79
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In the last 20 years organizing a GP has moved from a promoter being able to run a GP from gate payments, title sponsorship and stall holders to a situation where the only real income they have is from gate payments and a government/benefactor subsidy.
It has reached the situation in the last few years where even a small subsidy from state sources is no longer enough. A small subsidy can be justified by tourism/national promotion etc. However the figures now demanded make that unjustifiable from a political point of view if you are dealing with a democratic country.
The other part is when political rivals are able to point out the fortunes being hauled in by F1's owners when there are more pressing needs for public money.

Hopefully F1's new owners can see a way of allowing both circuits and F1 teams become sustainable long term for the good of all involved.

This is one thing that NASCAR seems to do well.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 10:53 (Ref:3700970)   #80
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For spectating I always enjoy Brands, Oulton and Snetterton because there are vantage points from which you can see several corners. I am privileged at Silverstone as I have access to the BRDC facilities but what this means is that I watch the support races on TV and through the clubhouse complex. The thing that is missing for me is any way of seeing the actual cars close up as we could do in my early years of visiting GPs. I agree that issuing "paddock passes" would add cost to spectating but seeing the cars is central to my enjoyment.

Fact is that the new owners will want to expand the fan base and there is a limit to that with actual race attendance. It can only grow on TV and the web so that is where they will put the emphasis but that requires the actual races to happen at real circuits and crowds at those circuits add atmosphere. Whether it is important where those circuits are is I suppose debatable but I would have thought recognisable venues would be a plus in the virtual arena.

I fear we are in for lots of uncertainty but the BRDC simply cannot afford the present contract.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 11:16 (Ref:3700977)   #81
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Come on, how can anyone not like the Maggots, Becketts complex?
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 12:28 (Ref:3700994)   #82
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I didn't say anything about not liking Silverstone, the whole lap for an F1 car or any top racer is a challenge but for spectators the ones I mention actually get you closer and give you a better view.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 12:43 (Ref:3700996)   #83
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Come on, how can anyone not like the Maggots, Becketts complex?
Yes, it's undoubtedly a good spot to watch from, but boy, does it cost. To be guaranteed being able to see from there, you have to be at the gate into the circuit before 6 o'clock on Sunday morning, and be prepared to run to a spot that overlooks the track to grab your space. And only the first couple of hundred spectators to arrive will actually get to see all the action.

Last year we stood there and watched the GP2 and GP3 proceedings on the Saturday afternoon - it was a great spot to view from, but we realised that we would be extremely lucky to be able to get a good view on the Sunday. So we chose to elsewhere, and even though we went through the gate at 6 a.m., we were one of the last ones to get a good viewing spot for the 4 of us.

The alternative is to pay an additional £299 for a grandstand ticket; so that's £145 for admittance, £299 for a seat and £50 for car parking, a grand total of £494 for approximately 3.5 hours of entertainment (which includes track cleaning time that seemed to last longer than the racing). And if you want to see all three days, you can add another £85.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 12:51 (Ref:3700999)   #84
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Yes, it's undoubtedly a good spot to watch from, but boy, does it cost. To be guaranteed being able to see from there, you have to be at the gate into the circuit before 6 o'clock on Sunday morning, and be prepared to run to a spot that overlooks the track to grab your space. And only the first couple of hundred spectators to arrive will actually get to see all the action.

Last year we stood there and watched the GP2 and GP3 proceedings on the Saturday afternoon - it was a great spot to view from, but we realised that we would be extremely lucky to be able to get a good view on the Sunday. So we chose to elsewhere, and even though we went through the gate at 6 a.m., we were one of the last ones to get a good viewing spot for the 4 of us.

The alternative is to pay an additional £299 for a grandstand ticket; so that's £145 for admittance, £299 for a seat and £50 for car parking, a grand total of £494 for approximately 3.5 hours of entertainment (which includes track cleaning time that seemed to last longer than the racing). And if you want to see all three days, you can add another £85.
Or just go to the WEC event instead.....
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 13:07 (Ref:3701005)   #85
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I didn't say anything about not liking Silverstone, the whole lap for an F1 car or any top racer is a challenge but for spectators the ones I mention actually get you closer and give you a better view.
I think we're just spoilt. Silverstone isn't as nice to spectate at as Donington, Brands Hatch, or even Knockhill. But it's still better than a lot of circuits world wide.

The price is just an F1 problem. WEC at Silverstone is perfectly reasonably priced.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 13:32 (Ref:3701013)   #86
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Exactly.

Though I do think Silverstone ups the prices of other events to cover their F1 costs, like the Classic and MotoGP a little bit.

Stupid things like the insane parking fees you pay are preposterous and a massive barriers to people going, and very cleverly hidden unless you know about them.

It is a terrible track for spactators, too far away, too featureless and flat. But for national and smaller international series it is by far the best venue. Donington is on its last legs, the real Brands is only a few days a year. The rest are club venues really other than Rockingham which was built wrong from the start but has facilities others would die for but the worst infield track I have ever seen!!
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 14:05 (Ref:3701021)   #87
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Well for me i'm lucky that i live in a motorsport triangle with Donington 33 miles one way, Silverstone 32 in the other and Rockingham 12 miles in the other and out of the 3 the one i go to the most is Silverstone, then Donington and last Rockingham.

Yes ok, the viewing in certain places is restricted to due the high fences but that is a by-product of modern safety standards. Those will never change so its pointless moaning about it! If you want terrible viewing, try Rockingam!

Yes Silverstone, on a normal clubbie event or even small International meeting can feel a very empty and soulless but that's what happens when you have such a large venue. But on the other hand when the BTCC are in town, sitting in Luffield or Woodcote grandstands the atmosphere is brillaint.

For me, if they brought the cost of a 3 day ticket down to the level that is charged for the Classic (£99) then I would probably go but as it stands, its just too much for how little you get to see.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 14:30 (Ref:3701024)   #88
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How has Rockingham managed to make viewing terrible? It's an oval. I attempted the Rolex 24 in 2006 and could see everything from the grandstand. Ok I didn't spend the race there, just had a nose around during practice, but it was easy to see everything.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 14:51 (Ref:3701027)   #89
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How has Rockingham managed to make viewing terrible? It's an oval. I attempted the Rolex 24 in 2006 and could see everything from the grandstand. Ok I didn't spend the race there, just had a nose around during practice, but it was easy to see everything.
The circuit was built as an oval for Champ Car, and when watched from the grandstands the view was excellent, however MSA regulations say that a circuit cannot have more than 1 banked consecutive corner, therefore the need to build the infield circuit and it exiting on to the oval after turn 4.

About the only part of the infield circuit you cannot see is when it goes along the School Straight after the Tarzan hairpin, besides that the view is fine, even if you feel a little removed from the action.

As for its suitability for F1, it would need an entirely new pit building and I think the infield would be too small to host the hospitality units, F1 Paddock Club and the support race paddocks. The infield track would need massive upgrading to meet FIA Grade 1 standards and the circuit have already said they are not prepared to spend the money to do that.

Why would they want to spend a fortune to host a loss making event. It isn't affordable for Silverstone so why would anyone else want to be the host.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 14:57 (Ref:3701029)   #90
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For me, because you are so far removed from most of the lap that is why i find it terrible. The fact you can see 95% of the lap is great but because you are so far away you lose seeing sum of the finer things that go on. Facilities wise, it is one of the best.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 15:07 (Ref:3701030)   #91
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For me, because you are so far removed from most of the lap that is why i find it terrible. The fact you can see 95% of the lap is great but because you are so far away you lose seeing sum of the finer things that go on. Facilities wise, it is one of the best.
It doesn't help the atmosphere when there are 2 massive open air grandstands that will never be used again. There is no where you could put a grandstand on the infield, and even if you could, you would see less of the track sitting there than if you were sitting in main grandstand.

You say facilities wise Rockingham is one of the best, which circuits do you consider to have better facilities, I am struggling to think of any.

If Silverstone make a loss on the GP how/why should they invest in improving facilities for spectators. The French Grand Prix is returning to Paul Ricard, if you want to sit at a circuit and feel totally remote from the track this is the place for you, you would need a very good pair of binoculars to see anything interesting there.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 15:45 (Ref:3701036)   #92
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Donington is on its last legs
I'm struggling to work out why you think that's the case, Chunder. Donington runs a pretty comprehensive meeting calendar for bikes, cars and trucks each year and is used almost every weekday for track days and private tests.

As someone else said, I'm lucky enough to live in the triangle between Donington, Rockingham & Silverstone and the last few years have seen me spread roughly 25-30 volunteer days a year across each of the three circuits for events of all shapes and sizes.

I'd do more at Donington, being the closest to me, but the club I've been doing most of my stuff for tends to run equal numbers of events at each of them.

In other news, 2017 will see the complete infield section fully open once again for spectators now the 2009/2010 butchery has been fixed. Big digs can be quick; backfilling them isn't
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 15:59 (Ref:3701040)   #93
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I'm struggling to work out why you think that's the case, Chunder. Donington runs a pretty comprehensive meeting calendar for bikes, cars and trucks each year and is used almost every weekday for track days and private tests.

As someone else said, I'm lucky enough to live in the triangle between Donington, Rockingham & Silverstone and the last few years have seen me spread roughly 25-30 volunteer days a year across each of the three circuits for events of all shapes and sizes.

I'd do more at Donington, being the closest to me, but the club I've been doing most of my stuff for tends to run equal numbers of events at each of them.

In other news, 2017 will see the complete infield section fully open once again for spectators now the 2009/2010 butchery has been fixed. Big digs can be quick; backfilling them isn't
Woo, great news. I love the Donington infield.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 16:20 (Ref:3701053)   #94
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The problem is Bernie is putting the price up too much and that filters down to everyone below, so it's not all Silverstone's fault
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 16:28 (Ref:3701055)   #95
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I meant nothing bad about Donington, simply that as a venue for holding huge international events, maybe SBK is their limit.

Am juts glad it's still there after that git ruined it
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 17:17 (Ref:3701069)   #96
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I meant nothing bad about Donington, simply that as a venue for holding huge international events, maybe SBK is their limit.

Am juts glad it's still there after that git ruined it
Bikes (BSB etc) are a big earner than cars for most circuits so why would a circuit want to spend money upgrading their track for a WEC event for example, that won't bring in anymore revenue and take away some of the operating days they are allowed when they could run a bike meeting at less expense.
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 19:06 (Ref:3701086)   #97
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Bikes are only an earner for 3 series. BSB, SBK and MotoGP.

Not for any others
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Old 8 Jan 2017, 19:38 (Ref:3701094)   #98
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Bikes are only an earner for 3 series. BSB, SBK and MotoGP.

Not for any others
That is probably more than for cars judging by Silverstones woes. BTCC might make money for the circuit, WEC maybe, F1 definitely not.
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Old 9 Jan 2017, 09:55 (Ref:3701211)   #99
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Well for me i'm lucky that i live in a motorsport triangle with Donington 33 miles one way, Silverstone 32 in the other and Rockingham 12 miles in the other and out of the 3 the one i go to the most is Silverstone, then Donington and last Rockingham..
Some people are just born lucky, my nearest Motorsport venues are Harewood Hill Cimb and Baitings Dam.
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Old 9 Jan 2017, 10:03 (Ref:3701214)   #100
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Some people are just born lucky, my nearest Motorsport venues are Harewood Hill Cimb and Baitings Dam.
My motorsport triangle used to be Mallory Park, Donington & Silverstone. By the time that Rockingham opened I'd stopped regular spectating anyway...
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