[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

...teams which don't have Audi's Ultra technology.

That's just a branding exercise. There's nothing special about 'Ultra technology' in motorsport terms. Perhaps R18 and TS030 have achieved more at miking their cars lighter, but it's not about ground-braking know-how and inventions, but rather development.

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

That's just a branding exercise. There's nothing special about 'Ultra technology' in motorsport terms. Perhaps R18 and TS030 have achieved more at miking their cars lighter, but it's not about ground-braking know-how and inventions, but rather development.

The Monocoque and Gearbox housing is made using Carbon technology not financeable available to others.
Some consider the One piece Monocoque and Carbon Gearbox Housing for ground-braking for Endurance cars.

[Jacques Rabbit]

I have a question about the fuel flow meter. I'm not well-versed in the technical side at all, but I was wondering:

1. Does the fuel flow meter sort of negate the freedom in engine size? As in, wouldn't it be an advantage to run a smaller engine?

2. What the hell do they mean when they say the fuel flow meter will take "race strategy" out?! Why would that ever be anyone's goal?!

Thanks.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by CTD

The Monocoque and Gearbox housing is made using Carbon technology not financeable available to others.
Some consider the One piece Monocoque and Carbon Gearbox Housing for ground-braking for Endurance cars.

With all due respect, I see that more as a question of development budget, rather than know how. And it would have been called ultra regardless of those things. Just like R8 LMS. It's similar to Mazda's 'Skyactiv technology' which is just an branding term for various little efforts to improve efficiency.

[Maelochs]

My point here is exactly that, that Audi can spend the money to build things lighter than other constructors. Ausid can afford some trial and error, and can devote many more engineers (and more supercomputer time) to a project than, say, Onroak, or more than Honda might choose to, or more than Wirth can convince Honda to fund.

It the design and development edge which sets factory teams apart---the smaller, less-wealthy teams learn during the season what the rich teams learned via simulation and testing before finalizing their designs.

So maybe some of the other teams considering P1 chassis are finding it hard to build to the lower limit while still including an ERS option.

I don't know, but I don't think I am the only one in this thread trying to make reasonable guesses.

[TF110]

Some ERS systems weigh around 50kg. The cars without ballast are probably lighter than 800kg. If there's a problem it's probably just the weight balance with an ERS system installed. The Peugeot 905 weighed 750kg, that was in 1993! There's no doubt in my mind these cars that will be slimmer could meet 830kg. This rule has to have a reason, but I wonder what the specifics are.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

2. What the hell do they mean when they say the fuel flow meter will take "race strategy" out?! Why would that ever be anyone's goal?!

Don't take it out of the context: "...in order to avoid any race strategy or fuel economy run and this kind of thing we could see in the past".

[Jacques Rabbit]

Originally Posted by deggis

Don't take it out of the context: "...in order to avoid any race strategy or fuel economy run and this kind of thing we could see in the past".

The context does nothing to change the meaning to me, which is why I was asking what it meant. It sounds like they want to get rid of fuel strategy. I think that's a horrible idea, personally. I hope I'm just being dense and missing the meaning. Why take out a factor that can help another car overcome certain weaknesses and make for a compelling race?

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Jacques Rabbit

The context does nothing to change the meaning to me, which is why I was asking what it meant. It sounds like they want to get rid of fuel strategy. I think that's a horrible idea, personally. I hope I'm just being dense and missing the meaning. Why take out a factor that can help another car overcome certain weaknesses and make for a compelling race?

The fuel flow has a maximum value at certain rpm which cannot be exceeded. There's nothing stopping engineers making the engine efficient enough that it doesn't need to use the full allocation of fuel every second though. It basically sets a sort of minimum stint length, but the maximum is left to the engineers. It still encourages efficiency. Basically, the engine theoretically gets a set amount of fuel per time interval and revs, but there's nothing saying that it can't use LESS than that allocation for the same performance.

[Pandamasque]

Basically they don't want to have engines that can make 1000 hp in qualifying 'mode' that would have to be completely strangled towards the end of the race to go the distance without running out of allocated fuel.

As a limitation it's not much different from having current restrictors, strategy-wise.

[MJones94]

What is the chance of a P1 team turning up on the grid in 2014 with an F1 engine in the back of their car? It is likely that the works teams will not use them, so will privateers be likely to use the Pure engines for example?

[Ziemas]

Originally Posted by MJones94

What is the chance of a P1 team turning up on the grid in 2014 with an F1 engine in the back of their car? It is likely that the works teams will not use them, so will privateers be likely to use the Pure engines for example?

The Pure effort to build an F1 engine is already over. Canceled due to lack of finance.

[MJones94]

Originally Posted by Ziemas

The Pure effort to build an F1 engine is already over. Canceled due to lack of finance.

Oh right, I heard that it was put on hold, but I guess it is not very surprising that they could not find the funds needed. Thanks for the info . It seems like it will be very unlikely then.

[gwyllion]

Andrew Cotton reveals an interesting fact about the 2014 minimum weight in the January 2013 issue of RCE:

It is interesting to note that, while discussing the 2014 regulations, both Audi and Aston Martin pushed for a 700 kg weight limit for non-hybrid LMP!, although according to Peugeot - which was also involved in the negotations at the time - it was Audi that finally voted against the limit. The limits are set at 850 kg for hybrids and 830 kg for non-hybrids run by privateers.

Clearly the article was written before draft 5 of the regulations increase the weight limit even further.

[Richard C]

As mentioned PURE is gone. I see no reason Ferrari, Mercedes or Renault would want to be distracted by trying to support both F1 and sports prototypes at the same time.

I believe that Cosworth only supplied two F1 teams (HRT and Marussia) this year. HRT is apparently a zombie and not expected to participate next year. That leaves only one team potentially using Cosworth in 2013, so there is speculation that Cosworth will not build F1 engines for 2013/14 and that one of the other suppliers (Renault?) would supply engines to Marussia.

However, apparently Cosworth has put some work put into a 2014 spec engine. I wonder if Cosworth could switch to sports prototype engines for 2014? Could they make money by providing a good privateer engine or would they have the same funding issue as Judd?

Richard

[Puzzle]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

However, apparently Cosworth has put some work put into a 2014 spec engine. I wonder if Cosworth could switch to sports prototype engines for 2014? Could they make money by providing a good privateer engine or would they have the same funding issue as Judd?

Richard

I believe that cosworth have a much broader base of sources of income than judd it just depends how much of that income they are prepared to sink into a most likely barely profitable engine.

[TF110]

700kg for non hybrids would've been great. Audi voted against it of all the people you would expect.

[gwyllion]

Audi confirms that they are working on a new car for 2014.

In a parallel project, Audi Sport is already intensively working on the successor car for the new LMP1 regulations that will come into effect as of 2014.

source: https://www.audi-motorsport.info/v2/...single/id/6614

[FstrthnU]

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11212195...r-than-le-mans

With the 2014 [F1] rules, the FIA is reportedly aiming to slow down the F1 cars by no more than five seconds per lap.

Any more than that, the German report claimed, runs the risk that formula one could be genuinely outpaced by Le Mans prototype cars, or the US-based Indycars.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11212195...r-than-le-mans

Apparently that has been scrapped...

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by FstrthnU

http://www.worldcarfans.com/11212195...r-than-le-mans

It could be worse if they were outpaced by Stock cars, of all machines, too!

Still, it the 2014 rules for Formula One are scrapped, that means they'll remain as the fastest cars in the world.

[TF110]

Theyre around 8 seconds per lap faster than lmp1 now. If lmp1 gets faster in 2014 and the f1 cars were slowed down by that much, they could well have been outpaced or at least a close match.

[Victor_RO]

Slowest F1 cars of 2012 can be outpaced by 2007-2010-spec LMP1 cars on the right tracks and under the right conditions anyway.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by TF110

Theyre around 8 seconds per lap faster than lmp1 now. If lmp1 gets faster in 2014 and the f1 cars were slowed down by that much, they could well have been outpaced or at least a close match.

It might be an off-topic but I'm afraid that there would be a time where they would propose a "one chassis tub" for all forms of motorsport: from Formula One to Le Mans, and even IndyCar.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

It might be an off-topic but I'm afraid that there would be a time where they would propose a "one chassis tub" for all forms of motorsport: from Formula One to Le Mans, and even IndyCar.

Highly unlikely, since LMP cars still have to be theoretical two-seaters and 2014 LMP1 regulations are just for closed cars.