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Silverstone Classic
Calendar: Historic Racing
Peter Mallett
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28 Jul 2017 to 30 Jul 2017 08:00 to 18:00
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Location: Silverstone Northants UK

The Biggest Classic Festival in the UK. Among many grids it will include a round of the Jaguar Challenge AND a race for HRDC Academy cars.

HMRN have also confirmed the 'RAC TT' race for Pre 63GT cars and U2TC will each have 50 minute races.
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 22:08 (Ref:3756202)   #136
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Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
Interesting weekend and now probably best historic racing weekend in UK.

They have done a superb job
I've been saying that for years! I have missed the last couple unfortunately, my impression is that there's something to everyone. Yes the music isn't to everyone's taste, but you don't need to go. You can go shopping, or to the funfair. chat to fellow enthusiasts on the club stands or just watch the racing if you don't want an "all over" experience. Yes the tickets look a lot of money but the value stacks up when you put it up with competing attractions like theme parks, Premier League football etc - and that's for the quality of cars & racing alone, besides the side shows.

My one abiding memory is that this is open-access motor sport - no paddock passes, no silly dress codes, everyone welcome. You get to see the teams at work which is unique at a major event to my mind.

I'm a fan, always have been.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 07:02 (Ref:3756253)   #137
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zefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridzefarelly should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Having just hit 46 Its debatable that I can call myself young anymore, however, the lack of 'youth' is down to ever spiralling costs and possibly that it lacks integrity in places as nearly everything's new!

I don't see many people in their 20's or 30's starting a family and owning a home let alone having 10k a year to waste on old cars, assuming they have one to play with.

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A new lightweight and it's a historic race meeting.
A joke!

No wonder historic racing is not expanding or changing

Not enough young people

Twenty years ago at Coys Talbot won the Pre War race, Gary Pearson on front row and Martin Stretton and Simon Hadfield in ring

Nowt changed!
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 09:55 (Ref:3756285)   #138
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The SpeCTator should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
A really good weekend.
No queues to get in or out, well done Team Goose.

Some excellent racing, although a little robust in the FIA Masters Sports Cars!

I thought it hard for the FJ/FF brigade, coming out of the pits for half a lap to race with no idea about damp /wet patches on other half of track.

Rolling starts seemed like a good idea.

Jonathan Kennard did a brilliant job in the FIA Masters Formula One, having not driven a F1 car before the meeting and having not raced for 6 years, a second and third (after loosing second with engine misfire)in the company of Messrs Lyons and Padmore was a brilliant result.
Shame HH-F did not interview as being denied a podium due to being Invitation entry.

Gutted for the A35/30 owners who lent their cars to the "celebrities" who managed to inflict inverted damage.

Big thanks to Simon H. who offered food and shelter on a horrid Saturday evening.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 10:40 (Ref:3756386)   #139
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Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
A new lightweight and it's a historic race meeting.
A joke!

No wonder historic racing is not expanding or changing

Not enough young people

Twenty years ago at Coys Talbot won the Pre War race, Gary Pearson on front row and Martin Stretton and Simon Hadfield in ring

Nowt changed!
IIŔC that year they had to call into the pits, get out run around the car Ang at back in. Stretton leapt out with the car still rolling and got back in. Quickest stop of the race.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 10:41 (Ref:3756387)   #140
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Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
A new lightweight and it's a historic race meeting.
A joke!

No wonder historic racing is not expanding or changing

Not enough young people

Twenty years ago at Coys Talbot won the Pre War race, Gary Pearson on front row and Martin Stretton and Simon Hadfield in ring

Nowt changed!
Interesting.

I would say things have changed quite a lot given that Historic presumably implies that the content - at least the cars - would be expected to be "frozen" in time (even if we know they are not!)

The People, of course, are less frozen but the one time youngsters are being augmented and sometimes replaced at the front of the field by new youngsters, albeit quite often with family connections.

Many names from 12 years ago - the time of my first visit to the Classic - have moved on or are at least not racing as often as they were.

The same can be said for the cars, especially the iconic originals. Presumably that has to do with the rise of "Special" events on the calendar - like Goodwood - and the perceived value of the (often many times rebuilt) iconic motors with relatively solid provenance.

As for a feed of young people (in motor sport in general) where are they likely to come from? Especially for Historics interest (other than continuation of familial connections).

Maybe the benefit of Historic racing is that at least the cars and technology are reasonably accessible still whereas "modern" racing (outside the "one make" series and broad interpretations of that concept) is somewhat more specialised and accordingly expensive.

If Historic Racing participation is largely based on people fulfilling their youthful dreams if and when they become wealthy enough to do so I suppose we should look back 20 to 30 years to understand where the "young people with funds to keep thing rolling" might come from. So Group C and Supertouring would be representative.

Back in the day what where the attendance figures for major meetings where those cars were on parade? Healthy? Probably.

Go back a generation before that ...

The 1968 BOAC 1000km at Brands Hatch was packed with spectators. The equivalent race the previous year, according to Motorsport, was attended by 60,000 people. Not bad for Brands Hatch at a time when few young people owned a car. (Indeed compared to today few people owned a car.) It's probably safe to say that the number is wrong but that it was a large number and likely repeated the following year.

But how many people attend a major sports car race in the UK? How many of them are young enough and likely successful enough in the future to form the basis of a new core of "I've wanted to drive one of those since I saw them racing as a kid"? Moreover, how likely is it that they racing vehicles they watched (or anything like them) will still be "accessible" and usable in the future?

If F1 and BTCC are the events that attract the crowds, where are today's equivalents of Historic Grand Prix cars and the growing population of Lotus Cortinas?

Today there is a vaguely sound argument for dropping back a generation (From 90s to 70s and 80s) to get reasonably close to the dream. Will that persist (from 00s and 10s) in 20 to 30 years from now? Or even 10 years from now?

If it does and if Historic Racing interest expands, where are the affordable cars to come from? Replicas? New E-Type Lightweights for example? Ever faster Lotus Cortinas?


It will be interesting to see how things develop for future generations especially if governments and motor manufacturers move away from the Internal Combustion engine and the historic fuels that power them.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 11:14 (Ref:3756394)   #141
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Delta and I have chatted about this recently. It was much easier to go racing in the seventies, when we started as twenty-somethings. You put a towbar on your road car, bought a helmet and the best overalls you could afford, sent off for a race licence and entered your first race (12 in 1977 - about 80 in today's money).

Now, you can't tow unless you've done the appropriate course, you have to take an ARDS test, you've got to buy the approved overalls, a HANS device, possibly replace the belts and extinguisher in your second-hand racer and spend 250+ on an entry. It's no wonder track days are popular with younger drivers.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 11:33 (Ref:3756396)   #142
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I reflect upon the likes of the late Barry Sideways and his ilk.

I agree that there are less opportunities for young folks to get involved but, people like Barry are still around and rather than us curmudgeonly lot moaning about the lack of young racers, perhaps we should take his lead and get folks into those classic cars, by which I mean Capris, Metros etc. There are planty of clubs that cater for these types of car and getting a few younger people along would do no harm. Admittedly some wil be put off by the "SAGA" effect but there will be a few who embrace it.

From there they can be encouraged to join in at club races and then who knows?

I'm as bad as the next when it comes to only entering the bigger events but there are lots of HSCC, MGCC, CSCC, HRDC etc. events where an extra pair of willing hands would be greatly appreciated and where those willing hands could be given that spark of encouragement to get involved.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 11:58 (Ref:3756398)   #143
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It's not just "celebrities" that roll these cars. An owner rolled one in the Sunday race at Brooklands, others have been rolled at Donington, Goodwood and one was on it's side at Combe two weeks ago.
Do they ever go through a race day without one tipping over ?
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 12:01 (Ref:3756399)   #144
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They are A30/35s, they were designed for it. Or so it seems.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 12:30 (Ref:3756406)   #145
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So Mike happy with your weekend? Watching the pit stop times I had a thought for you…*
Not quite understanding the pit stop reference, but if you're suggesting it was slow- it was! Not the pit stop, but the out lap, which found me in an unfamiliar car, in race conditions for the first time! I was slow, and sat behind delta (who was in a much less powerful XK) for half a lap until deciding to go past on the straight!

Considering our Iain spent most of Friday sorting the Assegai (which was in the other pits) gearbox, his results were very well deserved- class P4 and P3 in the two races.

I've always enjoyed The Classic and this year was no different. Moving around is a lot easier than in the G4S days and everyone is cheerful and helpful- even if the answer is ultimately No! I ate unhealthy food, consumed more alcohol than am used to, and enjoyed good company and a 'festival' atmosphere. Great. And no tumbleweed blowing about the paddocks anywhere......

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Old 31 Jul 2017, 12:35 (Ref:3756407)   #146
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It's no wonder track days are popular with younger drivers.
Indeed.

Plus you can go to the places you choose to go for the driving fun and you don't need to travel around the country if you don't want to.

No scrutineering other then perhaps noise tests.

And more often than not, more track time with less chance of damage.

It's not racing but then nor are sprints (for example) and there seem to be many people who find a sprint or a hillclimb just as satisfying for an adrenaline rush as racing would be.

And then there is Time Attack or perhaps drifting that may have more appeal to the younger generations. Can get expensive though finding those extra few tenths of a second.

There is also the question of how one might perceive the equivalent of an Historic perspective.

For some years now many open wheel formula have been single chassis for a 5 year period (or something like that). Will that be a good basis for a future historic category? Will there be enough chassis to spread around in private ownership to make a worthwhile number of entrants year after year?

If we consider saloons on the more modern era for "new historic" we have have had, outside the BTCC which probably does not count anyway, a lot of one make series.

So something like 3 or 4 generations of Clios for example. Now they were not modified road cars with a couple of strengthening plates - they were dedicated racing models. Would there be enough interest in them to have a multi-class Clio series running historic cars?

Likewise Seats?

Minis?

Could they all be combined into single races if the numbers dictated that that should be the way to go?

Obviously it's not impossible but is there likely to be the level of interest from the currently younger generation? Do they see those existing "formulas" as something they might wish to aspire to if and when they can afford it in middle age?

Then there is the question of whether one will be allowed to tow in the era of autonomously driven electric vehicles ....!
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 12:43 (Ref:3756409)   #147
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They are A30/35s, they were designed for it. Or so it seems.
I suspect exactly this for the Academy cars. Probably chosen because they are nicely rounded.

Anyway, get the roll cages right and the damage in a roll is probably not much beyond the body panels needing replacement. Right?
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3756417)   #148
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What were the grid sizes like at the Classic? As full as ever? What about at club racing? I haven't been for ages so can't comment.

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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:16 (Ref:3756441)   #149
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What were the grid sizes like at the Classic? As full as ever? What about at club racing? I haven't been for ages so can't comment.

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I think that may be the point. Rather than worry about "historics" get them into club racing at some level and then if they want to go FIA App whatever then fine. First we have to get them interested in racing and being able to race.

Agreed the costs for getting into it are far higher than in my day or many of us but it still isn't impossible.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:17 (Ref:3756442)   #150
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I suspect exactly this for the Academy cars. Probably chosen because they are nicely rounded.

Anyway, get the roll cages right and the damage in a roll is probably not much beyond the body panels needing replacement. Right?
I remember Peter St Barbe rolled his A35 in qualifying at Silverstone some years ago. Drove it back in, used a hammer on the underside of the roof and raced it that afternoon.
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