Need some help with Escort Mk1 1974 (Group 2 !!)

[SAMD]

Also, please be aware that cardboard is not considered a suitable material for the radiator/s

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Also, please be aware that cardboard is not considered a suitable material for the radiator/s

I'm sure with modern technology it could be made to work

Maybe not in 1971 though......

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by SAMD

Also, please be aware that cardboard is not considered a suitable material for the radiator/s

There was some cardboard brake pads made in China in VAG boxes that got into the supply system a while back.
I don't know if they worked very well though !

[Mike Bell]

Back to radiators, I have just spoken to a gent to worked for Ralph Broad in the injected GT, early RS1600 days. He reckons that radiators were most likely carried over from Gp5 cars, and be copper rather than aluminium. It doesn't mean that another team weren't using alloy, of course, and big question which will probably remain unanswered is when first adopted?

I asked said gent about period pics of suspension etc. 'Never thought about it'....

If only!

[Anglebox]

Originally Posted by Mike Bell

Phoenix, out of curiosity what prompted your original question regarding BDG? History documents that Mk1 RS1600 raced and rallied internationally with circa 2 litre alloy blocked engine from late 1972 onwards. Seems then it was still called a BDA, regardless of capacity or who built the engine.

It's almost like one of those riddles- When does a 2 litre BDA become a BDG?

In my day of Mk1 and Mk2 escorts, anglias and most things Ford I was told that a BDA referred to belt-driven aspiration, BDG referred to a gear-driven aspirated car. Don't know the facts but my source came as I helped build a Mk1 escort for the 1975 Heatway International Car Rally in NZ. (Source: Carl Anthony Rabbidge). The 2ltr motors at that stage were left-over 2ltr single OHC that Ford NZ got left with. They called the 2ltr powered escort RS2000s, but they were just 2ltr escorts with the plastic bits.

[chunterer]

Welcome Anglebox!

Interesting and I suppose logical account of why BDA and BDG were named as such.

I always thought that the BDA was always a smaller capacity engine than the BDG in any case. I thought BDG's were always 2-litres and BDA's no more than 1600cc?

[Peter Mallett]

I thought that in GP 2 format the RS1600 was a 1999cc BDA

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Anglebox

In my day of Mk1 and Mk2 escorts, anglias and most things Ford I was told that a BDA referred to belt-driven aspiration, BDG referred to a gear-driven aspirated car. Don't know the facts but my source came as I helped build a Mk1 escort for the 1975 Heatway International Car Rally in NZ. (Source: Carl Anthony Rabbidge). The 2ltr motors at that stage were left-over 2ltr single OHC that Ford NZ got left with. They called the 2ltr powered escort RS2000s, but they were just 2ltr escorts with the plastic bits.

I think it's far more simple than that. Cosworth usually give their engines a 'series code' of two letters, so in this case, it's BD. The first iteration of that series is then the BDA, then BDB and so on.
(However, I have also heard the BDA referred to as the Belt Drive A seies!)
This is certainly how it worked on the 2 litre turbo engined used in the Sierra and Escort Cosworth models, the YB series bagan with the YBB used in the first two-wheel drive cars (YBA was the prototype), then YBC was the Group A version of this, and so on...

[Mike Bell]

BDA= Belt Drive A series

The last letter was then used by Cosworth to denote different bore & stroke dimensions. That doesn't mean there weren't other capacity versions of BDA produced by alternative engine people and still called BDA.....


BDG= Belt Drive 1989cc version of BDA. (Originally iron block)

BDH= Belt Drive 1298cc version of BDA

BDR= Belt Drive 1699cc version of BDA

etc etc.

Gear driven engines were 1.6 FVA and 2.0 FVC.

[Clive Brown]

No. Proper Cossy BDG was 1975 cc.

Also, there is no such thing as a carburetted BDG! All authentic BDGs have Lucas mechanical injection.

There are, though, plenty of carburetted 1998cc BDAs.

FVC was 1790 cc, although a number of contemporary builders such as Alan Smith and Geoff Richardson did IIRC offer long-stroke versions of 1930cc and 1970cc and the like.

[Mike Bell]

Cheers Clive! I bow to your greater period knowledge!

[Clive Brown]

I wish I had a few genuine original Cosworth FV/BD series engines tucked away in my store cupboard now....

[morninggents]

I thought the 'A' stood for Anglia as the Cosworth line of engines all began with the 997cc Anglia unit and it's derivaties.

MAE - Modified Anglia Engine
SCA - Single Cam Anglia
BDA - Belt Drive Anglia
FVA - Four Valve Anglia

Similarly the DFV stood for Double Four Valve being based on two FVA engines in V formation.

Though I could be wrong.

[VIVA GT]

I think that what we're all proving here is that there's a lot of folklore connected to these Cosworth engine descriptions...

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I thought the 'A' stood for Anglia as the Cosworth line of engines all began with the 997cc Anglia unit and it's derivaties.

MAE - Modified Anglia Engine
SCA - Single Cam Anglia
BDA - Belt Drive Anglia
FVA - Four Valve Anglia

Similarly the DFV stood for Double Four Valve being based on two FVA engines in V formation.

Though I could be wrong.

That's what this old duffer has believed for the last ****** years !

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

That's what this old duffer has believed for the last ****** years !

And that's my understanding of it too!

BDE was 1850cc, BDJ 1098cc. Cosworth never made a 1litre BDA.

I believe that all of this stuff, and more, can be found on the Cosworth website.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by phoenix

Thanks Mike. Did that make the fitted engine a defacto BDG? Or was it an alloy-blocked BDA? The RS1800 production engine, which I thought was the first installation of the BDG, was 3.42"/86.8mm bore giving 1840cc (1837.2cc?) I believe.

Great thread!!!

Until recently I owned AMR XOO 347F. In 1971/2 it was used as the test mule in UK club meetings for the BDA alloy block in Shell colours run by Don Moore Racing and driver by Gillan Fortesqueu Thomas at 2060cc. The car was bought in 73/4 by Alec Poole and Derek Mcmahon with an 1800 injected BDA. Thereafter BD(A)s were nearly 2ltrs in capacity. In historic racing today there are other thiings that determine if an engine is BDA, BDG, BDX etc such as valve size, manifold studs, spark plug size/type etc.

Legend is that Cosworth did not aprove of the alloy block, Ford insisted on it after Brian Hart made it work.

[Clive Brown]

Original BDX was an iron-blocked Swindon-built big valve BDA of 1993cc. Did it use 10mm plugs like an FV-series engine to allow for the big valves?

[tony griffiths]

10mm plugs

[Gungebucket]

OK, just in case anyone other than me reads old threads .....
SC stood for Single Cam .... hence SCA (single cam model A)
FV stood for Four Valve hence FVA (four valve model A)
FVC (four valve model C) .... FVB never made it out of captivity
DFV stood for Double Four Valve
BDA was Belt Driven Model A
BDG was therefore the 7th BD model in the series
BDJ the 10th to see the light of day
..... hey, I was there at the time!!

[morninggents]

I think the 'A' in FVA and BDA stands for Anglia as all derived from the Ford Anglia and the Cosworth MAE engine was 'Modified Anglia Engine'.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by morninggents

I think the 'A' in FVA and BDA stands for Anglia as all derived from the Ford Anglia and the Cosworth MAE engine was 'Modified Anglia Engine'.

I second that, and I was told that a long long time ago !

[Tel 911S]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I second that, and I was told that a long long time ago !

Yes , that is what I always understood . Ford engines were always known by their block design , like the Essex engine , the Kent engine & the Anglia engine .
If you talked about an "A " series engine it was a BL small capacity like A 30/40 etc .
So from a long time ago I have believed that the BDA was Belt Driven Anglia series

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I second that, and I was told that a long long time ago !

I'm not sure about this, Gordon.

The 105E 998 c.c. engine was only a three bearing crank: and side-by-side induction-exhaust. Whereas as the Cortina was five mains.

And the FVA was based on the new crossflow engine, from the Cortina.

I seem to recall, Duckworth managed (Thanks to his development contract with Ford) to get his hands on an early version of the Crossflow Kent engine, as this released in general usage in 1967, however the first FVAs were released in 1966.

The development contract with FoMoCo was in two separate parts: firstly for the FII engine (Which was designated "FVA") and later simultaneously the FI DFV.

The DFV of course, being effectively two FVAs laid over, side-by-side in order to create the desired "V" block format.

It was then common for Ford to release a few prototype engines for analysis and development, (prior to general release in facelifted and new vehicles), alongside their own internal development, then mainly at the Dunton facility, in Essex.

I was working for Ford Europe at this time, 1966 to 1967.

Also worth recalling, Terry Drury of Supervan fame was also then a development engineer at Dunton, mainly working on dyno tests and cylinder head design: which was bloody handy for Terry, as he used to get through his work work ASAP and then use the dyno time for developing his own race cars!

The original crossflow iterations (Both 1,300 c.c. and 1,600 c.c.) suffered serious pre-ignition and spot overheating problems until the flame path progression was sorted. It was also very sensitive to ignition timing and plug heat range: easily burning out pistons.

Terry's able dyno assistant, Alan Cornish, later work together at European HQ at Warley, Essex.

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

Terry's able dyno assistant, Alan Cornish, later work together at European HQ at Warley, Essex.

Or, more correctly:

"Terry's able dyno assistant, Alan Cornish and I later worked together at European HQ at Warley, Essex".

(It's been a long hard week! )