Laguna Seca Crash

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by KSR88

I was there--on the day. The Factory (read that U.S. Taxpayer supported) Covette team hit----Brabham's Highcroft car causing damage, 2 Challenge GT Porsches, rammed the BMW, ran the Vici Porsche off the road to get by, took out the Dyson Lola and hit Bergmeister 3 or 4 times before the wreck.
They reaped what the sowed to be biblical.
I wonder if there were radio instructions to the driver to hit Bergmeister?
When the Lizards were run into the Sebring wall there was a protest......that was denied.
I am unaware of a protest here--probably since #3 isn't clean and the radio tapes may be difficult to explain.

Gavin's accident was odd to be sure and very out of character, but what does it have to do with the incident in question?

It's obvious that your not a Corvette fan, but to believe that Jan was instructed by Dan Binks to hit Jorg is idiotic.

[ss_collins]

It was good racing, niether backed down. Same as Sebring a couple of years ago

[MJ_N_09]

Originally Posted by KSR88

I was there--on the day. The Factory (read that U.S. Taxpayer supported) Covette team hit----Brabham's Highcroft car causing damage, 2 Challenge GT Porsches, rammed the BMW, ran the Vici Porsche off the road to get by, took out the Dyson Lola and hit Bergmeister 3 or 4 times before the wreck.
They reaped what the sowed to be biblical.
I wonder if there were radio instructions to the driver to hit Bergmeister?
When the Lizards were run into the Sebring wall there was a protest......that was denied.
I am unaware of a protest here--probably since #3 isn't clean and the radio tapes may be difficult to explain.

What? I'm not buying this tinfoil conspiracy, espicially the part with the taxpayers' money and the word with "bible" in it.

[KSR88]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Gavin's accident was odd to be sure and very out of character, but what does it have to do with the incident in question?

It's obvious that your not a Corvette fan, but to believe that Jan was instructed by Dan Binks to hit Jorg is idiotic.

Corvette racing was playing hardball is the relationship...with anyone on track...that is a fact.
Jan hit Jorg before the last turn incident as well.
Have you been to the races and listened to #3 and #4's radio? I have now for several years. It is enlightening. Jan was instructed to turn on his brights! and to flash them on Saturday. I was listening to Hindy at the end...so I missed that part---but I bet Speed TV might have recording.
You should hear Johnny O's x-rated comments---all good stuff.
If it is idiotic than where is the protest? Lizards protested Melo at Sebring--and lost the protest.

[fieldodreams79]

i still find it humorous that the 45 is the car that is involved all three incidences being compared. guess they have a BMW on the "tangle" list for next year.

Originally Posted by KSR88

Corvette racing was playing hardball is the relationship...with anyone on track...that is a fact.
Jan hit Jorg before the last turn incident as well.
Have you been to the races and listened to #3 and #4's radio? I have now for several years. It is enlightening. Jan was instructed to turn on his brights! and to flash them on Saturday....

never seen that in endurance racing before
is it illegal? surely not...

in fact, didn't the 45 turned the high beams on the Panoz going into to Sunset at Sebring earlier this year at the 2nd incident or is that an illusion?
regardless, they are all elements of getting the guy in front to make a mistake.

i think Joerg had the rear view turned up as i know i would.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by KSR88

Corvette racing was playing hardball is the relationship...with anyone on track...that is a fact.
Jan hit Jorg before the last turn incident as well.
Have you been to the races and listened to #3 and #4's radio? I have now for several years. It is enlightening. Jan was instructed to turn on his brights! and to flash them on Saturday. I was listening to Hindy at the end...so I missed that part---but I bet Speed TV might have recording.
You should hear Johnny O's x-rated comments---all good stuff.
If it is idiotic than where is the protest? Lizards protested Melo at Sebring--and lost the protest.

Gavin's accident was not on purpose... that's pretty obvious. It has nothing to do with the incident being discussed.

Yes, we heard that broadcast on TV. It's pretty standard to try to distract the other driver into making a mistake. Jorg is too good for that to work. Why aren't they protesting? I don't know or care.


Something I noticed on a slow motion replay is that Jan actually hits the inside wall. That's why he came across the track.

[Marcel ten Caat]

Sometimes these battles end in tears, sometimes they don't.

It was the third time since 2007 that Flying Lizards were involved in such an 'incident'. Two times they lost the battle, this time they won.

Racing incident, that's just it. Could almost say a fitting end to this battle ;-)

[Breitling24]

IMHO, Mr. Castro in post #10 said it best.

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by Stranger

Sometimes these battles end in tears, sometimes they don't.

It was the third time since 2007 that Flying Lizards were involved in such an 'incident'. Two times they lost the battle, this time they won.

Racing incident, that's just it. Could almost say a fitting end to this battle ;-)

That's a good summary of all the stuff... and I agree, take it as a racing incident... at least give both teams a warning - but no more than that.

Apart from that it was a thrilling race with good battlings for positions even after 4 hours of racing.

[trahsub]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Something I noticed on a slow motion replay is that Jan actually hits the inside wall. That's why he came across the track.

Folks at the race inspected the wall on Sunday morning and there were no signs that contact was made near the incident.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Something I noticed on a slow motion replay is that Jan actually hits the inside wall. That's why he came across the track.

No, it was because Jan turned hard right into Jorg, and Jorg hit the brakes.

[JHamilton]

yeah, I watched it again and y'all are right. It was awfully close though... I guess that's why Jan was pulling to the right.

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

could have sworn you thought Jan was to blame for everything

I never said Jan was solely to blame, i said they were both rubbing down to the line and that the final rub that sent Jan spinning was instigated by Jan.

[Tim the Grey]

A certain Mario Andretti once said...
"They're just 2 young lions, clawing at one another".
Sad the 'vette's a write off, but then that is racing. Sometimes it happens.

Racing incident. But tell drivers and teams that they WILL be watched, and a repetition WILL result in penalties.

[arakis]

Both JAN and Jorg are on a two race probation, here is the article from speedtv.com

The controversial finish sent shock waves through the paddock afterward, but IMSA made no adjustments to the final results. They instead elected to place Bergmeister and Magnussen on probation.

Should either driver commit further offenses in the first two rounds next year, they will receive at minimum a two-race ban from competition.

[zac510]

Yeah that's what I was thinking, a big slap on the wrist and "don't do it again" should be enough. They've made themselves look silly and embarassed their sport which should shame them out of doing it again.

[cor123]

Jan's side of the story:

http://www.janmagnussen.com/news.asp?NewsID=527731528

[MGDavid]

"I was too far behind to make an attempt in the last corner, but then he parked the car and I couldn't avoid him.(so I ran into him). He went a little sideways at the corner (because I just ran into him) and I get beside him and almost in the lead (but not quite). I was sure that the victory was mine but then he decided he wouldn't lose in the last corner again (I read his mind) and starts to drive into my side and continued until I was in the wall "(although there's not a mark on it).
My italics. Sounds a lot like number 142 in the racing driver's book of excuses (just my opinion).

[NightStalk3r]

Originally Posted by arakis

Both JAN and Jorg are on a two race probation, here is the article from speedtv.com

Might aswell give Jan the 2 race ban now then, save the poor souls who will be punted out of his way at Sebring.

[997 brakedust]

I guess Corvette Racing lived up to it's motto - "take no prisoners". Where as Jorg lifted at Sebring, he didn't this time.

[KSR88]

Originally Posted by cor123

Jan's side of the story:

http://www.janmagnussen.com/news.asp?NewsID=527731528

Wow--my respect for this guy has dropped alot. Must be post concussion syndrome.
He left out he hit him in the corkscrew.
Guess he forgot that he actually hit him twice in the last turn.
Left out any retaliation shove back....which is why he charged the wall.
Claimed he hit a wall that had no physical scars afterward.
500 HP cars don't veer right without an input like a broken halfshaft, or steering input coupled with a nose pivot.
A trailing car can't do that to an accelerating vehicle-especially with brake lights on.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by KSR88

Wow--my respect for this guy has dropped alot. Must be post concussion syndrome.
He left out he hit him in the corkscrew.
Guess he forgot that he actually hit him twice in the last turn.
Left out any retaliation shove back....which is why he charged the wall.
Claimed he hit a wall that had no physical scars afterward.
500 HP cars don't veer right without an input like a broken halfshaft, or steering input coupled with a nose pivot.
A trailing car can't do that to an accelerating vehicle-especially with brake lights on.

You need to watch the race again... He didn't hit him in T8, only hit him once in T11 (which as I've said before, if you block a faster car for 15 minutes, what do you expect?), and although it's not mentioned much, the 45 ran the 3 off the track in T2. I'm sure Jan cut back across the 45... watch the video, where else is he going to go other than the wall?

The wall he was referring to was not the inside wall he was being pushed in to by the 45, but the one he hit head on after being punted. All was fair until what Jorg did on the front stretch.

I honestly don't know why everyone is so ****ed, I mean the Porsche won, what's the problem? Is it because you think the vettes (and bimmers) will dominate next year?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

Might aswell give Jan the 2 race ban now then, save the poor souls who will be punted out of his way at Sebring.

So you are solely blaming Jan? Lets ban Jorg too so he doesn't block and push people into walls?

[fieldodreams79]

Jan is being soley blamed for his destruction...

Originally Posted by NightStalk3r

I never said Jan was solely to blame, i said they were both rubbing down to the line and that the final rub that sent Jan spinning was instigated by Jan.

[KemRS4]

It's a difficult call for sure, corvette had the faster car. Jan was absolutely hammering it through the corkscrew and consistently gaining time there.

To me the question is not whether Joerg ran off Jan on the front straight, he def. did but was it justified that's the question. To me if Jan bumped Joerg in the last turn on purpose then imo Joerg was justified in aggressively defending his win, after the sebring incident he has learned the higher road doesn't work out.

Watching the replay both announcers mentioned that Jan was too far back in the last corner to take it, but he attempted the dive bomb as Dorsey hinted he might try, bumping the porsche and then getting the run on the straight.

Not sure if from the footage you can really tell if Jan ran the last corner too deep and bumped Joerg because he went in too hot, or were the porsches tires shot and Jan simply had the grip to make a much faster exit. The announcers seemed to think he was too far back, and on top of that the porsche generally had better speed there, but tire wear could have been a factor.... so in the end who knows.