Is driver bashing the soul of this forum?

[Valve Bounce]

We have had driver bashing here as a "must do" on this forum.
TGF is regularly maligned,
Mika is too old ans should retire,
DC is a coward, cube head, and so on,
Ralf has no talent, and couldn't drive,
JPM has had the book thrown at him, from arrogance to lack of talent,
Jacques has been labeled as not that great, to being there only because of his name,
Rubens is a whinger, and so on,
Bunsen can't drive,
and so on and on it goes.

What is it with some of the guys here. Does it make one feel good to knock one of the guys who can drive an F1 car, and does that make our own achievements or lack of same more significant?

Maybe we can have a Driver Bashing forum so that all threads and posts that bash drivers can be moved there. I am sure several of the bashers will only be too glad to moderate such a forum. And lots of guys can have fun there.

For me, I'll stay away and read the good things about our heros, past and future. I know I've never felt better since I stopped driver bashing.

Yes!! This is a serious post.

[mac]

Go Valvey! I completely agree. Some of you just need to settle down a bit.

Sometimes, I do a bit of it. But at least I spread it around most of the drivers. Anyway, my criticisms are simply my opinions. I like to think that they are mostly objective and unbiased.

I have been bagging DC recently, but when he does something good, I'll be one of the first to give him a wrap.

I also give it to Jenson a bit. I have stated that I like Jenson as a fellow. However, he replaced Zanardi and is the man standing between Webber and an f1 seat. My bagging of Jenson is usually designed to promote Mark Webber - who is regularly quicker in testing (oops I've done it again).

This sounds like a confessional.

What I object to are the cheap shots. ie. giving it to someone because of who they are, and / or without cause. Or judging them on past indiscretions.

[Valve Bounce]

Oh Yeah!! And I forgot Eddie. He gets bashed regularly, although I think he does come up with some doozy interviews.

[DMC]

I totally agree with Valve Bounce on this. All 22 drivers on the F1 grid possess a talent for motorsport that most of us can only dream of having. Just because Hakkinen has a few bad Grand Prix doesn't mean his time is up and he has immediately lost his talent, just because Schumacher uses agressive driving tactics to maintain position doesn't mean that he only wins by "cheating" and just because Villeneuve drives a car that is by no means the best on the grid does not mean that he is only in Formula One by family reputation. All of these drivers are there on driving merit alone, save for a few "rent-a-drivers" and a true F1 fan should realise and admire this. After all, do you watch a Grand Prix to see the world's fastest racing cars driven by the world's fastest drivers or do you watch it to berate Hakkinen for "failing yet again" or Montoya for his arrogance.

The point that I am trying to make is that these 22 drivers who we watch in awe drive these stunning machines are better drivers than we will ever be, an any minor fault that you find in them will not change that.

[enzo]

Yes, I agree - the amount of bashing that goes on here is absurd, nevermind childish!

Makes me wonder what's going on in their private lives that makes them have the need to feel better by knocking others.

And the really sad part is hat not one of them has a clue what they are talking about.

[mac]

Oh yeah, I really don't like the childish, predictable, general and constant bashings of particular drivers.

[senna12]

There seems to be more of it lately than when I joined the forum. I am happy to say, I don't play that game, no matter how silly it gets at times!

Perhaps it has increased as MS approaches some all-time records. People should try to remember that statistics in motor-sport are very misleading, and rarely tell the whole story, Gilles being a prime example.

People should take some comfort in their own opinions, as opposed to getting somewhat bent over those of others, which you are unlikely to change regardless.


Can't we all just get along?

[eatapc]

Although I agree in general with Valve Bounce, I think this forum at its worst is far less obnoxious than others on the net -- particularly since Dancing Machine was banned.

There's a difference between criticizing a driver and bashing him. And there's a difference between making a joke at a driver's expense (they are public figures), and being childishly cruel. Sometimes the difference is in the eye of the beholder, and there's no getting around that.

To cheer for a favorite driver without rooting against the opponents takes a kind of maturity that's not really normal human behavior. And there's something about the anonymity and isolation of internet forums that brings out the worst in many people. Valve Bounce usually greets new members with his "friendly and abuse free" welcome, which helps set the proper tone. Craig Anthill's advice to "attack the post, not the poster" is the "Golden Rule" that we all need to live by. But I don't mind a little poke at a driver as long as the post is funny or shows some intelligence.

[R]

Neither do I. From my personal point of view, when I post, I write my honest opinion as I feel it at that particular moment. I've found the domination of TGF utterly boring, and I always hope for someone else to win, so I write that. That doesn't mean I don't respect the man's ability and admire his immense talent, something I've let shine through often enough as well. In fact, I admire all the drivers on the grid. Thinking back on my posts, I can remember saying negative things about some of them, but I also think I've actually managed to say positive things about every single driver on the current grid specifically addressed by name! And that includes Tarso Marques.

In general, when I see a thread turning into driver bashing, I tend to avoid it. I think that's the thing to do. Each and every individual has to draw his own line, I guess. I'm assuming the "Driver Bashing Forum" idea was a joke, though I absolutely agree with the intention and the spirit behind your post Valve.

[marcus]

oooohhhhh...dont get me started on that tarso marques...the guy is hope.......ohhh.never mind

oh look at lovely little corner over there for me to sit in

[R]

Hi Marcus, I see you've just read my post on Tora Takagi in the Indy forum...

To balance my comment, I just have to say that Takagi certainly is a quick driver, isn't he, otherwise he wouldn't be able to place himself in those positions where he could push others off the track!

[JeremySmith]

Good post Bouncey..I agree with you completely..If I have been guilty of the above mentioned topic...I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to you all I may have offended..

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by R
I'm assuming the "Driver Bashing Forum" idea was a joke, though I absolutely agree with the intention and the spirit behind your post Valve.

No R, I did write in my original post that this is a serious post. Some threads have already been posted here by my mates Wrex, Donk and Amoffat to try to isolate some of this bashing. Then I thought why not isolate all bashing to the one forum, and if anyone wanted to bash a driver, they can post there, and leave the rest of the forum to those who don't want to see innocuous threads develop onto driver bashes half way through. That way, a post bashing any driver can be moved to the appropriate thread in this forum.
Yes!! This is a serious post.

[Peter Mallett]

Hmm,

Take a look at any sport. People with opinions will express them. There can be no doubt that this season we have been told that JPM is the best thing since sliced bread and OMHO he's just about raising his game to "average" at the mo.

We suffer a lot of crowing from MS fans telling us how wonderful he is and yet when asked, some of them deny that he's ever done anything mildly wrong.

OK then. We all respect people's positions but if we can't bag the drivers what are we going to talk about?

Bouncey, I think you do take these things a little too seriously sometimes.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
OK then. We all respect people's positions but if we can't bag the drivers what are we going to talk about?

You tell me - you're the Race Official with over 3000 posts, how many of those did you write to bag drivers? Surely you must have thought of other things to talk about.

[Peter Mallett]

Perhaps I should point out that the "Race Official" bit is rarely used by me. So before people get the wrong idea I will go on record as saying that unless its something to do with the forum rules, any topic or post by me is NOT an official ten/tenths statement.

Having said that a lot of my posts have criticised drivers, teams, Bernie, Max et al. Why ever not? If people are getting bored with them, then ignore them.

I hope that answers your questions. But maybe you should also know that I don't very much like hype of any kind and as such I found the whole thing about Montoya this year and Barrichelo when he signed for Ferrari to be an ideal opportunity to debunk what I was being told to believe. So far I've been right but you may think diferently.

[Alan Jones]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett


Having said that a lot of my posts have criticised drivers, teams, Bernie, Max et al. Why ever not? If people are getting bored with them, then ignore them.

This is the point. People should be able to express their opinions within the rules of the forum that pertain to all of us. Why get all pent up?

[drexel]

Surely theres's nothing too wrong with driver bashing. Sure it gets annoying sometimes but it is fun. And when things go over the top, a group of posters will usually objectively destroy the ridiculous post, therefore putting and end to the discussion. If there was no emotion shown, then i doubt too many people would bother coming.

[mac]

Peter - it is not the drivers' fault that the media hype them up.

[Peter Mallett]

It was JPM who originally said he was going to kick @rse. It was Barricheloi who said he was going for the WDC. That's the point.

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by drexel
Surely theres's nothing too wrong with driver bashing. Sure it gets annoying sometimes but it is fun. And when things go over the top, a group of posters will usually objectively destroy the ridiculous post, therefore putting and end to the discussion. If there was no emotion shown, then i doubt too many people would bother coming.

OK, so the forum that I am suggesting should be a real fun place for all the guys like Peter and Drexel to go to, nothing wrong with that. All I am saying is that we create a fun driver bashing forum for all hte guys here who love to bash drivers to go to and have fun.

Peter, being a race official with over 3000 posts would make you more aware of what posts guys here have posted including yourself. Like I said, how many of those 3000 posts have you spent bashing drivers? What percentage are we talking about? Surely there must be some people here who want to get away from driver bashing, not to see good posts suddenly degenerate into driver bashes. I am not advocating banning driver bashes - I am advocating creating a separate forum where posters can enjoy driver bashing wholeheartedly.

[Peter Mallett]

Mr Valve.

The whole raison d'etre of this forum is to discuss the relative merits of personalities, cars, races and anything else associated with Formula one. What on earth is wrong with criticising drivers? If fans don't like what people say they put up a defence and that is then discussed.

If we start splitting the forum into categories like you suggest there will be a need for more moderators and more controls.

I genuinely don't like some of the drivers because of their behaviour on or off the track. That being so I will use my priviledges as a member of this board to explain that to others. It's not my fault if people like Moffy don't know the true path that is my way is it?

At the moment, what else is going on? There are no rules being broken, there are no massive shunts (thank goodness) where we can apportion blame on one or other of the drivers. There are no political shenagans heppening. So what's left but to bag those drivers with big mouths and over inflated egos.

For the record you can in fact read the last 2927 posts submitted by me but I do not know how mwny of them relate to JPM or Barrichelo or TGF.

[Valve Bounce]

Peter, I repeat, I am not against you bashing drivers. I am advocating a separate forum for this past time because such threads often get heated, and people get carried away by insulting each other's favourite drivers. Personally, I am tired of seeing good threads turn into driver bashes. There are many here who have agreed with me that they don't want this, and all I am suggesting is to create an environment where driver bashing can be enjoyed to its fullest.
Incidentally, I don't consider driver bashing anything to do with F1. Most of it is people trying to inflate their own egos by denigrating our F1 drivers. True, there are some who are genuine, but the repeated posts against TGF, Jacques, Eddie, and all the drivers have nothing to do with F1 and are getting really sickening. I am not talking about honest criticism - I am talking about driver bashing or trashing.

[Peter Mallett]

Valve,

This is the F1 forum. If its about F1 and people are not attacking posters then I really see no problem. Drivers are rich, well paid and famous. As such they are there to be criticised whenever they do something annoying.

See your pms.

[mac]

I don't agree with a separate forum. If you don't like a thread or a post because it bashes certain drivers, ignore it. This is why I don't post on all threads. One does not have a gun at their head, making them read the threads or post the posts.